New Mutants Movie

[Slicknickshady]

Tenet made 53 million its opening weekend buuuut yeah New Mutants 8-10 million is totally not a bomb

lol

Worldwide. But of course you equate them.

[Amadeus Arkham]

It said right there that Storm was going to be Cecilia part, which was the bad guy torturing the kids...

Ah, I forgot that was who Alex Braga was playing. I haven’t watched the trailers in a while, and know little of the movie itself.

[ClanAskani]

I can see how Fox would have wanted a well-known X-Man character to appear since it at least provides someone that viewers know - the way MCU movies use Nick Fury. The problem is the twist where this isn't what it seems and ultimately trying to add an established X-Men character into this story wouldn't have worked.

But Reyes is the one "helping" the kids learn to control their powers and not necessarily torturing them. She does spoilers:

lock them in solitary confinement

end of spoilers but there is some element of safety involved if since the kids could have out of control power which would hurt others. Yet, there's no mention of whether they can't use their powers or something which would make it a necessity.

Ultimately Dani is spoilers:

able her control her powers and is using the mantra Reyes was using during the mediation scene.

end of spoilers

And Reyes trying to "teach" the kids does remind me of Magneto and the New Mutants.

There is an interesting idea that might make sense of what if someone has powers which are so dangerous and uncontrollable that they threaten everyone? What do you do? If it was someone like Storm and suggestion they were working for Xavier, it could be a decent set-up.

And it is a major difference with mutants versus superheroes in the MCU. The Avengers by themselves aren't feared due to just their inherent powers. They cause massive damage due to battles with villains and Stark technology.

[ClanAskani]

For the movie itself: There's really no good reason for Magik to be racist. I believe they were probably going for a "teens are cruel" trope. It should be pretty obvious you can do that without being a raging racist. And no, Magik's past trauma does not excuse her racism.

What Illyana says is culturally insensitive bullying. What's worse is in their first scene with Dani and Illyana after a few of Illyana's references to Dani's heritage, she then tells Dani to do something that causes Dani physical pain.

Kids who have undergone traumatic events aren't just sad. They want others to hurt as badly as they do. With Dani being the audience POV introduction to this world, it does work to show kids and teens watching how hurtful what Illyana said is. It's not comic Illyana but the idea that the kids are traumatized and terrible to each other isn't unrealistic with this set-up.

[randomideaguy]

What Illyana says is culturally insensitive bullying. What's worse is in their first scene with Dani and Illyana after a few of Illyana's references to Dani's heritage, she then tells Dani to do something that causes Dani physical pain.

Kids who have undergone traumatic events aren't just sad. They want others to hurt as badly as they do. With Dani being the audience POV introduction to this world, it does work to show kids and teens watching how hurtful what Illyana said is. It's not comic Illyana but the idea that the kids are traumatized and terrible to each other isn't unrealistic with this set-up.

I mention this in the same post you quoted. You can be a bully without being racist.

[Killerbee911]

Worldwide. But of course you equate them.

You do realize New Mutants was released worldwide as well. It made about 2 million dollars worldwide which included in 8 to 10 that poster mentioned. Let's be clear Tenet isn't doing that well either it is going to take a hail Mary from China to save them.

[ClanAskani]

I mention this in the same post you quoted. You can be a bully without being racist.

What Illyana does is bullying and intended to be hurtful. But calling it racist is a stretch.

Illyana says:

spoilers:

Asks Dani what type of Indian she is and then when Dani starts to tell her about her tribe, Illyana says she doesn't care. Illyana later calls her Pocahontas.

end of spoilers

It's generalizations about a specific culture or region. Illyana could have used the same types of references to Rahne about Scottish clans or asked Sam if his parents were cousins.

Bullying usually targets what makes us different whether that's glasses, weight, height, hair color or ethnicity. The definition of racism from Merriam Webster dictionary is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race". Does what Illyana said rise to these levels? Is the intent to express some sort of racial superiority or just to be a bitch?

[Kingdom X]

What Illyana does is bullying and intended to be hurtful. But calling it racist is a stretch.

Illyana says:

spoilers:

Asks Dani what type of Indian she is and then when Dani starts to tell her about her tribe, Illyana says she doesn't care. Illyana later calls her Pocahontas.

end of spoilers

It's generalizations about a specific culture or region. Illyana could have used the same types of references to Rahne about Scottish clans or asked Sam if his parents were cousins.

Bullying usually targets what makes us different whether that's glasses, weight, height, hair color or ethnicity. The definition of racism from Merriam Webster dictionary is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race". Does what Illyana said rise to these levels? Is the intent to express some sort of racial superiority or just to be a bitch?

I think that taps into the deeper question of intent vs. actions. I think that in some ways if you think that you can get away with saying these things to people that you must believe you’re superior. I also think it’s important to note that being labeled racist, isn’t a life long classification. You can certainly change your feelings and grow as times goes on (this is not to say that the people affected by your actions need to forgive you).

The other Webster definition of racism is “racial prejudice or discrimination.” Yana definitely has some prejudice against Dani. If it had been one comment it could be argued against but it repeats itself three times. Every line of dialogue in a movie is important so unfortunately this is part of her characterization.

[ClanAskani]

I think that taps into the deeper question of intent vs. actions. I think that in some ways if you think that you can get away with saying these things to people that you must believe you’re superior. I also think it’s important to note that being labeled racist, isn’t a life long classification. You can certainly change your feelings and grow as times goes on (this is not to say that the people affected by your actions need to forgive you).

The other Webster definition of racism is “racial prejudice or discrimination.” Yana definitely has some prejudice against Dani. If it had been one comment it could be argued against but it repeats itself three times. Every line of dialogue in a movie is important so unfortunately this is part of her characterization.

Illyana is angry at everyone. It's not just due to Dani being a Native American. If Dani was replaced with Doug, would Illyana have treated him differently because he's white? No. She would have found some way to bully him. She thinks she's better than all of the other kids there. It's a defense mechanism.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Why Cecilia? That's actually simple. She was introduced as a mutant that SUPPORTED OZT. Why? Well she's just not into the mutant rights thing. She sees mutants from the PoV of someone who's had to help clean up the messes created by superhero vs Supervillain battles.

She debuted in O:ZT, she never supported Bastian's agenda. In fact, a few pages into her debut she was attacked by Prime Sentinels who wanted to kill her. If her power wasn't what it was she'd have died right then and there. She's for mutant rights, she's just upset that her life got destroyed because of the dangers involved in the war between mutants and humanity. It's a very sympathetic and contemporary response. She's a doctor first, not a super-hero. That's all she's wanted to be. IIRC Xavier had tried to recruit her off-panel and she rejected it because she wanted to be a civilian doctor, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not because she didn't agree with the X-men.

[randomideaguy]

Illyana’s actions and statements in the movie are racist. Sorry, but thems the breaks. Intent doesn’t matter.

[Tofali]

What Illyana does is bullying and intended to be hurtful. But calling it racist is a stretch.

spoilers:

It would be a stretch if it stopped at zero racist insults but they were several. Asking her questions about not knowing how to grow weed like her ppl, asking what kind of Indian she is and when answered she retorts back that she didn't want to know specifics, calling her Pocahantas, Standing Rock, and telling Dani that her ppl like Buffalo Wings

end of spoilers

[ClanAskani]

spoilers:

It would be a stretch if it stopped at zero racist insults but they were several. Asking her questions about not knowing how to grow weed like her ppl, asking what kind of Indian she is and when answered she retorts back that she didn't want to know specifics, calling her Pocahantas, Standing Rock, and telling Dani that her ppl like Buffalo Wings

end of spoilers

Those are all cultural references Native Americans and rude responses. They are ignorant, obnoxious and hurtful, but the same type of statements could also be made about Scots to bully Rahne or jokes about Appalachians aimed at Sam.

But they fall short of the level of racism which can be levied against Native Americans due to race.

Every mention of something vaguely related to a person's culture or a historical figure is not a racist insult.

[Tofali]

Those are all cultural references Native Americans and rude responses. They are ignorant, obnoxious and hurtful, but the same type of statements could also be made about Scots to bully Rahne or jokes about Appalachians aimed at Sam.

But they fall short of the level of racism which can be levied against Native Americans due to race.

Every mention of something vaguely related to a person's culture or a historical figure is not a racist insult.

i guess then we have different levels of tolerance for racism because however you explain it, Magik is still racist in this movie.

[anyajenkins]

Those are all cultural references Native Americans and rude responses. They are ignorant, obnoxious and hurtful, but the same type of statements could also be made about Scots to bully Rahne or jokes about Appalachians aimed at Sam.

But they fall short of the level of racism which can be levied against Native Americans due to race.

Every mention of something vaguely related to a person's culture or a historical figure is not a racist insult.

The same types of things could have been said about Rahne or Sam, but were they? Did she ‘bully’ them about that?