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  1. #4531
    Astonishing Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    Zaga is black.
    Please stop
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    I feel as though your point is almost correct, on the surface, but not really. Let's break your own terminology down: Cecelia is an Afro (black) Latina (Hispanics and Latinos are of Spanish decent, not afro). Therefore, as a boriquan woman she is mixed race. Puerto Ricans are descended from (partially African) and (partially native/indegenous Tainos) and back in the day, European settlers took over Puerto Rico and wiped out the indigenous caribbeans. So even though they have darker skin, pure black Puerto Ricans are actually a minority, not the majority. Everyone seems to see the black but not the Taino. And to be clear, I did not say Cece is FROM Puerto Rico, as that has never been stated in canon. She could very well be an American-born New Yorker. I agree with you it's sad that folks don't know the difference between race and ethnicity. I am not just rebutting Cece's cultural associations, but her biological ones as well.

    As for Zaga as Roberto, I agree he's not half black like Roberto. They did get the nationality right, and I think they actually got half of his race right, since he is Brazilian, which is more than I can say for Cece.
    Spanish is a nationality. People from Spain are Spanish. It doesn’t really matter whether Cece was born in Puerto Rico or not, she’s still an Afro Latina, a black woman.

  2. #4532

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    Almost 50% of the Brazilian population is white. Zaga has white privilege. Someone with white privilege shouldn't be playing Sunspot.

  3. #4533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    Spanish is a nationality. People from Spain are Spanish. It doesn’t really matter whether Cece was born in Puerto Rico or not, she’s still an Afro Latina, a black woman.
    Again, an almost correct statement. I only hear people acknowledging the Afro part, but not the Taino part (which are indigenous Indians, not Africans)... that part adds a dark pigment to skin tones too... you guys know that right? The Caribbean islands have hundreds and hundreds of years of racial mixing, and although there is a prominent Afro component, there are other races with dark or black skin tones to factor, so it would be presumptuous to assume Cece was JUST black, and not mixed, racially-speaking. She could be bi-racial or even tri-racial (having Taino, Spanish and Afro ancestry in her genes, like most Puerto Rican’s Ricans do) Just like how folks inaccurately categorize Roberto as just black. He is black, but he is also multi-racial with a black dad and white mom, half and half, equally. His Afro Brazilian dad could be just black, or he could be mixed with other dark skinned races, which makes the black pigmentation in his genes more dominant and that’s why Roberto is predominantly dark skinned, even though he’s half white. And just like how people confuse my very dark skinned Dominican boyfriend who grew up in NYC as a black man - although he acknowledges that there is Afro lineage within him (from generations ago), but does not identify as a black/african american man. Other people might infer that of him based on his skin color, but it's not accurate. He has other races mixed in his blood (we've done the DNA test and percentage wise, he is less than 1/3 of afro decent )

    Taino Indians. Indigenous Caribbeans. Arawakans. Look them up, remember the terms and learn about the historically complicated racial makeup of the Caribbeans. Folks on this board should learn about them so they stop being reductive and confusing all black/dark skinned people as having Afro descent.

    And yes, I agree it doesn't matter where she was born, I was addressing the other poster who stated she was born in Puerto Rico, and wanted to make sure it wasn't misunderstood that was what I was implying. But Marvel fandom has this fun factoid and Cece quote:

    Screen Shot 2020-02-07 at 1.22.17 AM.jpg
    Last edited by Tunasammiches; 02-07-2020 at 01:37 AM.

  4. #4534
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Ima try to keep this concise, which might be difficult as I tend to get whimsical whenever I smoke. annnnd Im feeling preeeety whimsical, but The potentially harmful misinformation was just too big to ignore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    Hmm... no I didn't mean 'black', I meant what I meant.[He is always colored as dark skinned with wavy (not kinky) hair, so I've always visualized him as a dark skinned Brazilian. Now, I'm not saying he is not of African decent, because yes, in that respect he's got black in him, but his mom is light skinned with red hair so there is also anglo European in his blood. So he is of mixed decent, not just black.
    What is the visual difference between wavy and kinky hair? being of African descent it how most people have black in them lol. Also no one says they are of mixed descent...thats not a thing. And someone denying Bobby of being biracial is not a thing either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    Also bro, if you want to talk about having different experiences due to skin color, your argument for Roberto falls flat - because it's not like Roberto has had it rough or anything, he's extremely rich and seems to come from old money. I'm not saying that black people don't have extravagant lifestyles, I'm just saying your argument doesn't work.
    Hmmm...Interesting you thought I referring to a poor/rough upbringing when I was referring to Bobby Being roughed up for being Black, when I first time I read it a similar thing had happened to me and despite being from the same country Zaga would never go through that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    Also, I don't know you or where you come from, but whenever I've left the US and visited the Dominican Republic (my boyfriend's family is from there) or Cuba (also family down there), and I've noticed that nationality IS actually considered more important that "race". Culturally, people in those places do acknowledge that their people are light skinned, dark skinned and black skinned. But they if you ask them how they identify themselves, they don't go around saying "i'm black!" or "i'm white"... no, they identify as "Dominican" or "I'm Cuban", and they might go so far as to identify the region they come from,
    I'm from South Alabama. They probably didnt think they needed to as they assumed you had your sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    but not once did I talk to a black skinned Dominican who identified as "just black". The only people I hear wanting to categorize black people as an "other race" are folks from the US, who only know what the black experience is like from an American historical perspective
    . As a black kid with a dad that looks like the male version of Sunspots mom. who went from being Biracial...to Mixed...to Black I think thats preeeeety sad. IN my limited experience Biracial (blk&wht) kids who ALWAYS point out the fact that they arent "JUST Black' almost always have low opinion of their black side.And that feeling....It. EFFIN. Sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    I did not mean "black". I'm identifying her as she identified herself in canon. Her last name is REYES, a hispanic surname. Her first name is CECELIA, also a hispanic name. Her brother's name is Col. MIGUEL Reyes. She's clearly of latino decent and her skin tone indicates afro-Carribean decent. So yes, she's got black in her, but she's also Puerto Rican.
    Soooo instead of going on how someone looks you go by their names? lol OOOK. buuuut its canon that CeCe recognizes whes a black latinx. She talks to Iceman(?) saying something similiar to: "as a black puerto rican woman studying in a field dominated by white dudes she knows how to ignore and deal with prejudice. NO one is saying shes not Puerto Rican, Not sure why you keep making that claim. Her creator obviously made a choice NOT to have her look like the majority of latinxs in the media....The same as Sunspot, to ignore or downplay those choices is sorta insulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    My question to you is, why do only see her as a black woman? Mixed race people from a different culture like myself don't necessarily like being classified as one thing, based on what you see, rather than what you know. My boyfriend is a dark skinned Dominican/Cuban guy, who looks like a black guy, as "black" as Cece, but culturally, my boyfriend is not black. His dad is a light skinned Dominican guy with red hair and his mom is a dark skinned Cuban woman and they all speak spanish at home. They might have African lineage (from a distant ancestor), but their family is not classified as black, nor do they classify themselves as black. We are more than our skin and we don't like to be marginalized and just because other folks don't know how to look closer than what they see, doesn't mean that we need to identify ourselves like other prefer to identify us.
    1. Errr I don't I was just saying they would have been better represented by black actors
    2. Culturally he isn't black? What exactly does that mean? What would be an example of being culturally black. Funny how his dad has redhair tho lol
    3. I mean I'm not surprised that they dont Identify as black,Despite that most African slaves were taken to South America and Carib. And 90% of DR's population having African Ancestry, hundreds of years later the poison of colonization can still be seen. Racism_in_the_Dominican_Republic
    4. Why would they automatically be marginalized? Unless by deferring to their 'white side' they hope to escape some of the 'baggage' that comes with being the 'other race'



    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    I'm actually curious to know your views on the trans community now. Are you the kind of person to deny the them their gender identity too, because they were born one way but identify another?
    Yeah I think I get your point (except the part about the prosthetic part? Who are you talking about?) Sounds more like folks jumping on an outrage bandwagon without thinking about the actual intricacies of race and identity politics.
    Well my friends boyfriend is trans soooo Im using the proper pronouns and new name as such. Zoe Saladana had to wear fake nose dark makeup on her face when she was playing Nina Simone in her bio-movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    Why comment when you dont even know the basics of the character? Hes literally called Black in his very first appearance. His origin is that hes a Black kid who gets picked on and attacked because hes Black. Its the reason his powers activate.

    And you should educate yourself on race in Brazil in movies, TV and advertising. What the people behind New Mutants have done is bring the lack of recognition of Black Brazilians in entertainment to American movies. Bobbys whitewashing is actually worse because hes Brazilian.
    LORD YES!!!!! Apparently people STILL have problems with it. ANd thats what seriously disturbs me.
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #4535
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    The catalyst for his power stemmed from an antiblack assault and his power is a metaphor for his blackness. He may not fit your weird definition of what a black person is, but mixed people with a black parent or grandparent still call themselves ‘black’, same goes for Sunspot.

  6. #4536
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Woo Lord, I step away for a few hours and ka-blam!

    So *nervous laughter* anyone else excited to see the Magik pictures that will likely get posted today *steps back into shadows*
    Team Yana Bachalo Fanboy Cyclops Was Right

  7. #4537
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Henry Zaga isn't even mixed. Both his parents are white.

    Him with his father and sister:


    Him with his sister, mother, and grandmother:


    I'm brazilian and literally not a single person here would consider him anything but white. It's not a matter of a black or half-black light-skinned guy on the role, it's a matter of them just thinking that him being brazilian is enough. Especially cause in America people consider "latino" as a race in itself.

  8. #4538
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    I hope the angst over the casting choices isn't spilling into/AT the actors themselves because they're just thrilled to be employed and doing what they love.

  9. #4539
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I hope the angst over the casting choices isn't spilling into/AT the actors themselves because they're just thrilled to be employed and doing what they love.
    Agreed. I'm sure Henry isn't taking these things to heart and if anything possibly was motivated to nail Bobby's personality. An actor just wants to do the best they can, and I certainly don't blame some more established actor's unwillingness to go genre due to the obsessive fans. Granted this is a different issue than "OMG he wouldn't be acting that way" or "he's not hot enough" that we normally would see.

    But you can tell they are aware that the fans are watching how this movie is promoted, I mean they already posted a picture online of him and Charlie cuddling/wrestling/joking around/making out on social media.
    Team Yana Bachalo Fanboy Cyclops Was Right

  10. #4540
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Henry Zaga isn't even mixed. Both his parents are white.
    According to IMDb, Henry's mother is part Native Brazilian.

    We have no idea how much, but it doesn't matter. The whitewashing debate goes too far when actors who are biracial are being attacked for being not dark enough.

  11. #4541
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    To be fair, I don't think anyone here is blaming Zaga. It's the casting agent and director that should have either pushed harder for a more diverse pool of actors, or not be swayed by a new young "up and coming" pretty face.
    Team Yana Bachalo Fanboy Cyclops Was Right

  12. #4542
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Boxofficepro has their long range forecast up (which isn't actual tracking, it's just one guy's opinion) and he has it in the $15-$25M opening range.

    https://www.boxofficepro.com/long-ra...2-the-runaway/

    There's real difficulty with tracking on a movie like this since it's targeting teens who are ridiculously unreliable about whether they will actually go see a movie when asked if they plan on seeing it or if they are aware of the movie. Considering Birds of Prey is probably looking at at under $40 Million opening (edited to add: yikes, now it's looking like under $35M), it's just too difficult to gauge online interest vs actual ticket sales.
    Last edited by ClanAskani; 02-07-2020 at 02:46 PM.

  13. #4543
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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    3 new pic

  14. #4544
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    According to IMDb, Henry's mother is part Native Brazilian.

    We have no idea how much, but it doesn't matter. The whitewashing debate goes too far when actors who are biracial are being attacked for being not dark enough.
    It’s one simple question and a yes/no answers it.

    Is Henry Zaga black?

    The answer is no. This cheap moral diversion away from Fox constantly misrepresenting black characters is doing nothing but allowing these directors to keep getting away with racist casting choices. No one has been “attacked” for not being dark enough, but there is systemic colorism that robs dark skin actors and actresses of roles by giving them to white-passing or light skin POC.

  15. #4545
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    No one has been “attacked” for not being dark enough, but there is systemic colorism that robs dark skin actors and actresses of roles by giving them to white-passing or light skin POC.
    On social media and in articles about the "whitewashing" there have been images of Blu Hunt next to Dani as an example of whitewashing.

    For example - This tweet https://twitter.com/kindlestuck/stat...25875138568192 with the image:



    Here's a Facebook post about Blu visiting the Lakota tribe: https://www.facebook.com/Wikoskalaka...49869778463420.

    This hasn't gotten as bad as other attacks on actors for being too light with whitewashing allegations (for example, the hate Aurora Perrineau received for Jem & The Holograms), but I get the impression people who are upset are more concerned with skin color than any other element of their character and are being unfair to those of Native ancestry.

    I would have preferred Afro-Brazilian actor been cast as Bobby, but at least they cast a Brazilian and an actress with Native American ancestry as Dani. Those are important elements of their characters.

    If Maisie couldn't have used her Bristolian accent as Rahne, then if a non-Brazilian actor was cast as Bobby who looked more appropriate, would it be acceptable for Bobby to not have an accurate Brazilian accent?

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