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  1. #46
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So you're saying, when SW ends and Earth is full of amalgums of other universe characters, that will kill the Marvel product?
    No that wasn't what I meant. What I meant was through the fact that the hero kinda lost in "Times run out" the tension of that story is over and Hickman tries now to create a new story and new tension which could be hard given the style and time he has for hat story.

    The problem is more the state of the classic heroes in MCU their aren't many who can be called hero at least in my preference( or dead or swapped their identity).
    I don't know if Hickman stay but the next author(s) for the Avengers, Iron-Man and other are going to have a really hard time

    e.g. March 2015:

    (Top)
    Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. sales
    1 Princess Leia 1 $3.99 Marvel 253,655
    2 Star Wars 3 $3.99 Marvel 161,226
    3 Guardians Team-Up 1 $3.99 Marvel 155,388
    4 Spider-Gwen 2 $3.99 Marvel 107,070
    5 Princess Leia 2 $3.99 Marvel 96,262
    6 Amazing Spider-Man 16 $3.99 Marvel 92,289
    7 Howard The Duck 1 $3.99 Marvel 85,929
    8 Darth Vader 3 $3.99 Marvel 85,156
    9 Batman Arkham Knight 1 $3.99 DC 73,266
    10 Amazing Spider-Man 16.1 $3.99 Marvel 73,170
    11 Thor 6 $3.99 Marvel 70,569
    12 Silk 2 $3.99 Marvel 69,369

    (Middle)
    24 Avengers 42 $3.99 Marvel 50,811
    42 New Avengers 32 $3.99 Marvel 40,583
    55 Superior Iron Man 6 $3.99 Marvel 37,113
    (sry it don't have the time to make a table)

    (On the ground)
    My estimation is that the numbers of sales will not reach those after SW more like :
    114 Captain America and Mighty Avengers 6 $3.99 Marvel 20,235

    This is because they don't have great characters in the team so you need time to built them up.(which can take a really long time)

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So Hickmans New Avengers was GoT? And Secret Wars continues the same tension with more GoT? That points to a very dark, and unsatisfying end to all this, because GoT just spoils all goodness, and celebrates all badness in everybody. I don't know how you could reconcile this sort of rendition in a Marvel Universe setting, when we are anticipating the good guys win. Are you suggesting the good guys would be too naive to continue promoting as a product?
    Difficult question but first yes I think Hickman brings in more GoT into SW to compensate for the time he has to built up tension. I agree GoT isn't something what is really compatible with the Marvel Universe nether the less we saw more and more from it brought in from the authors.
    I wouldn't say they are to naive it is more like that they are often used as a punching bag but it is also true that it is difficult to make a multi dimensional character which readers demand with out making him/her a shady guy/woman. When it is a complete new character you can say I don't care about it as an author but if you pick the old up who aren't supposed to be like that it will be a let down for many readers in the long run.

    I think you need some times a new perspective/ idea to make a good stories it isn't necessary to blow up planets or make the hero a villain:
    e.g. the opening of Maoyuu Maou Yuusha where the hero confront the demon lord(queen) to kill her.


    This refuse will only hold until the end of the first issue after that they both conspire against their worlds to make them better.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakoM View Post
    No that wasn't what I meant. What I meant was through the fact that the hero kinda lost in "Times run out" the tension of that story is over and Hickman tries now to create a new story and new tension which could be hard given the style and time he has for hat story.

    The problem is more the state of the classic heroes in MCU their aren't many who can be called hero at least in my preference( or dead or swapped their identity).
    I don't know if Hickman stay but the next author(s) for the Avengers, Iron-Man and other are going to have a really hard time

    e.g. March 2015:

    (Top)
    Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. sales
    1 Princess Leia 1 $3.99 Marvel 253,655
    2 Star Wars 3 $3.99 Marvel 161,226
    3 Guardians Team-Up 1 $3.99 Marvel 155,388
    4 Spider-Gwen 2 $3.99 Marvel 107,070
    5 Princess Leia 2 $3.99 Marvel 96,262
    6 Amazing Spider-Man 16 $3.99 Marvel 92,289
    7 Howard The Duck 1 $3.99 Marvel 85,929
    8 Darth Vader 3 $3.99 Marvel 85,156
    9 Batman Arkham Knight 1 $3.99 DC 73,266
    10 Amazing Spider-Man 16.1 $3.99 Marvel 73,170
    11 Thor 6 $3.99 Marvel 70,569
    12 Silk 2 $3.99 Marvel 69,369

    (Middle)
    24 Avengers 42 $3.99 Marvel 50,811
    42 New Avengers 32 $3.99 Marvel 40,583
    55 Superior Iron Man 6 $3.99 Marvel 37,113
    (sry it don't have the time to make a table)

    (On the ground)
    My estimation is that the numbers of sales will not reach those after SW more like :
    114 Captain America and Mighty Avengers 6 $3.99 Marvel 20,235

    This is because they don't have great characters in the team so you need time to built them up.(which can take a really long time)



    Difficult question but first yes I think Hickman brings in more GoT into SW to compensate for the time he has to built up tension. I agree GoT isn't something what is really compatible with the Marvel Universe nether the less we saw more and more from it brought in from the authors.
    I wouldn't say they are to naive it is more like that they are often used as a punching bag but it is also true that it is difficult to make a multi dimensional character which readers demand with out making him/her a shady guy/woman. When it is a complete new character you can say I don't care about it as an author but if you pick the old up who aren't supposed to be like that it will be a let down for many readers in the long run.

    I think you need some times a new perspective/ idea to make a good stories it isn't necessary to blow up planets or make the hero a villain:
    e.g. the opening of Maoyuu Maou Yuusha where the hero confront the demon lord(queen) to kill her.


    This refuse will only hold until the end of the first issue after that they both conspire against their worlds to make them better.
    Some people have already written off Marvel Characters as being too "evil" already, but there is a market for Superior Spiderman, and Superior Iron Man. Maybe the nostalgic Classic super hero does become too boring and incites less interest? Stalwart fans insist that super heroes must project the purest of morals, and cannot stray from that basic tenet. What we saw happen to super heroes running up to Time Runs out corrupted that notion quite a bit. It wasn't very palletable watching the dismantling of loved characters by the situations that normally the characters would have risen above.

    I assume when all this is done, and what comes after begins, that we have our palletable super heros again. Maybe they will again be given wet clay feet, like they were given in the end of the 616, and they descend again into "villain" territory, because that is more interesting than the notion super heroes should aspire to a higher order.

  3. #48
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Some people have already written off Marvel Characters as being too "evil" already, but there is a market for Superior Spiderman, and Superior Iron Man. Maybe the nostalgic Classic super hero does become too boring and incites less interest? Stalwart fans insist that super heroes must project the purest of morals, and cannot stray from that basic tenet. What we saw happen to super heroes running up to Time Runs out corrupted that notion quite a bit. It wasn't very palletable watching the dismantling of loved characters by the situations that normally the characters would have risen above.

    I assume when all this is done, and what comes after begins, that we have our palletable super heros again. Maybe they will again be given wet clay feet, like they were given in the end of the 616, and they descend again into "villain" territory, because that is more interesting than the notion super heroes should aspire to a higher order.
    I think the final verdict is still out , it will happen when we jump into the 616 after SW because they have still the option to undo per time travel what they have done and stop the whole "Times run Out " arc before it happened. In the end it would still left some bad taste in the mouth of some fans but I don't see another "easy" option.

    You can also try to wash clean the hero but this would take a longer time to be successful maybe even years.(Heroes Reborn)

    To be true I don't see Marvel targeting each of those options Marvel did it best to assure the reader that this story will stay and will all that action they took in the MCU they say more we won't use those characters in the future. I aware that Marvel mislead the readers very often but in such a case it not only the choice of Marvel management/authors because in this case the readers would also need to give there approval that they are heroes again.(and buy the comics) It is like a car driving into a dead-end street on its end you need to move the car around.

    About the success of heroes to villain concept that was the reason I put those numbers in it. I do 't have number of Superior Spider-Man but with him it was slightly different, first Peter Parker was burned down by too much drama as a character , second it wasn't him it was Doc Oc in his body. Third this whole concept with him was more a villain plays a superhero the opposite of it. I think what people liked about is how the character got enlightened similar to Maoyuu Maou Yuusha(Doc more slowly)

    New Avengers were if you take a look at the older data good average but never the best they got constantly beaten by Spider-Man , Batman by far and even slightly from the normal Avengers like I said most stayed with it because of the tension how the story impact everything else in the MCU and the question can they rescue their own souls ?(of my favourite heroes Hickman took everything as a hostage^^)

    Superior Iron-Man I think so long the concept is new there a still readers to it but given place 55(37k readers) it seems more on a sinking branch. I think 12 months later it will be burned out completely and than the title will either also closes completely or Tonys brother will take over.(or we got another alternative Tony Stark....this give me an idea)

    If they don't undo that stuff we will have the problem of no old Avengers besides perhaps Henry Pym and Hulk and no FF. How that work we see with Captain America and Mighty Avengers they are on place 114(20k) which brings them into the zone for being cancelled. I know we will also get A-Force the Amazons Avengers that the only ray of hope at the moment and I also think Marvel knew why they want to do that.

    About what Marvel need to do in future I think for more complex stories making new characters and avoid to burn down the old by making them into villain, maybe some new authors with new ideas would be also good, alternative Marvel could license also stories like the mentioned Maoyuu Maou Yuusha which is a light novel which has already given out 4 manga licences, simply printing that down as a comic. Generally speaking I would say taking a look on the work what publisher/authors outside the U.S do is very good idea because at the moment is seems a lot of paste&copy work of the authors at DC and Marvel.. I mean the authors for new ideas. Especially stuff that are based on novels are very good.(other example Mushoku Tensei).

    To say it simple making a hero into a villain can get you sales for the time the story runs but it cannibalise the character in the long run. You can make it more grey by mixing light and shadow but the hero should never follow his fear . It more the matter if he wants to accomplish something for him and others and make his not so pure decision on that.

  4. #49
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    Doom's role in preserving life and creating Battleworld is not at all clear. He is clearly thought of as a god on Battleworld, but that in no way means that he actually is. I would assume Battleworld exists in the same unobservable space that the library exists in and where the beyonders are from. There is no reality left. How one goes from Battleworld in white space, to defeating the beyonders so they don't kill everything again, to a reality as we know is a complete unknown at this point. Making assumptions about what the new Marvel Universe will look like, particularly the "sky is falling" kind, seems a bit premature.

    Battleworld seems to be nothing more than a stopgap measure to preserve some life while the real problem of the beyonders is dealt with. At the end of Hickman's FF run, Doom finds infinity gauntlets in the space where the council of Reeds met. He creates a universe in his own image and his people end up casting him down. He explains this to Valeria as "I was a God...". "And?" Valeria asks. "I found it... beneath me." (perhaps the best line ever). Valeria then takes ownership of the space and states, "Here I can build". I do not believe Doom has any divine aspirations, I think he got that out of his system.

    I don't think Doom is responsible for the creation of Battleworld or the seeming memory wipe of it's denizens. Even with a sliver of Owen's power that would seem to be beyond him. Doom, Valeria, Owen, and eventually Dr. Strange I assume all had something to do with the planning of all this, and none of them but Owen would have that sort of power, and he appears to be gone. It would seem Franklin is the only one with that kind of power. Until Doom actually displays his supposed omnipotence, I'm going with him being a figurehead.

    As far as the planning and execution of Secret Wars, Hickman planted the seeds in Dark Reign Fantastic Four in 2009. His titles have been expanding on the same themes and plot threads since then. To my eyes this seems like a very natural evolution of the story. Bendis on the other hand had difficulty deciding whether chaos magic existed or not.

    P.S. Characters with flaws are interesting, but I'm not sure people are looking for the dark anti-heroes everyone seems to writing. Every character in the new 52 was kind of a dick and we see how well that turned out. Setting the tone along the lines of the Flash series as opposed to the Arrow series will hopefully be the path forward. The success of GOTG both in the cinematic universe and the Abnett and Lanning volumes of the comics (not the bendis-y teenage angst hero vs hero kind) are a testament to that.
    Last edited by Sangreal12; 05-18-2015 at 10:08 AM.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakoM View Post
    I think the final verdict is still out , it will happen when we jump into the 616 after SW because they have still the option to undo per time travel what they have done and stop the whole "Times run Out " arc before it happened. In the end it would still left some bad taste in the mouth of some fans but I don't see another "easy" option.

    You can also try to wash clean the hero but this would take a longer time to be successful maybe even years.(Heroes Reborn)

    To be true I don't see Marvel targeting each of those options Marvel did it best to assure the reader that this story will stay and will all that action they took in the MCU they say more we won't use those characters in the future. I aware that Marvel mislead the readers very often but in such a case it not only the choice of Marvel management/authors because in this case the readers would also need to give there approval that they are heroes again.(and buy the comics) It is like a car driving into a dead-end street on its end you need to move the car around.

    About the success of heroes to villain concept that was the reason I put those numbers in it. I do 't have number of Superior Spider-Man but with him it was slightly different, first Peter Parker was burned down by too much drama as a character , second it wasn't him it was Doc Oc in his body. Third this whole concept with him was more a villain plays a superhero the opposite of it. I think what people liked about is how the character got enlightened similar to Maoyuu Maou Yuusha(Doc more slowly)

    New Avengers were if you take a look at the older data good average but never the best they got constantly beaten by Spider-Man , Batman by far and even slightly from the normal Avengers like I said most stayed with it because of the tension how the story impact everything else in the MCU and the question can they rescue their own souls ?(of my favourite heroes Hickman took everything as a hostage^^)

    Superior Iron-Man I think so long the concept is new there a still readers to it but given place 55(37k readers) it seems more on a sinking branch. I think 12 months later it will be burned out completely and than the title will either also closes completely or Tonys brother will take over.(or we got another alternative Tony Stark....this give me an idea)

    If they don't undo that stuff we will have the problem of no old Avengers besides perhaps Henry Pym and Hulk and no FF. How that work we see with Captain America and Mighty Avengers they are on place 114(20k) which brings them into the zone for being cancelled. I know we will also get A-Force the Amazons Avengers that the only ray of hope at the moment and I also think Marvel knew why they want to do that.

    About what Marvel need to do in future I think for more complex stories making new characters and avoid to burn down the old by making them into villain, maybe some new authors with new ideas would be also good, alternative Marvel could license also stories like the mentioned Maoyuu Maou Yuusha which is a light novel which has already given out 4 manga licences, simply printing that down as a comic. Generally speaking I would say taking a look on the work what publisher/authors outside the U.S do is very good idea because at the moment is seems a lot of paste© work of the authors at DC and Marvel.. I mean the authors for new ideas. Especially stuff that are based on novels are very good.(other example Mushoku Tensei).

    To say it simple making a hero into a villain can get you sales for the time the story runs but it cannibalise the character in the long run. You can make it more grey by mixing light and shadow but the hero should never follow his fear . It more the matter if he wants to accomplish something for him and others and make his not so pure decision on that.
    It's always been a problem with comics to keep the characters fresh without tarnishing their reputation. Something like Secret Wars gives a very good jumping on point because it wipes away where everyone was at the moment of the Incursion. At this point in Secret Wars #2, nobody remembers the 616, and whatever the characters' current dramas were, are now irrelevant, and can't be revisted again after this, because the next planet status would do a soft reboot, and it would be like waking up after a mindwipe, and starting again. I'm not sure how Marvel are going to mix Ultimate characters, with Multiverse connections, into what was the old 616. But it should be sufficient to notice nothing from the previous 616 carries over as to their personal dramas. So if Spiderman was a loner and owned Parker Horizon Labs, in the old 616, after SW, Spidey will be married and have a kid, and maybe a sister, and his Aunt will be dead, and he won't have any trauma about it.
    Last edited by jackolover; 05-19-2015 at 05:13 AM.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangreal12 View Post
    Doom's role in preserving life and creating Battleworld is not at all clear. He is clearly thought of as a god on Battleworld, but that in no way means that he actually is. I would assume Battleworld exists in the same unobservable space that the library exists in and where the beyonders are from. There is no reality left. How one goes from Battleworld in white space, to defeating the beyonders so they don't kill everything again, to a reality as we know is a complete unknown at this point. Making assumptions about what the new Marvel Universe will look like, particularly the "sky is falling" kind, seems a bit premature.

    Battleworld seems to be nothing more than a stopgap measure to preserve some life while the real problem of the beyonders is dealt with. At the end of Hickman's FF run, Doom finds infinity gauntlets in the space where the council of Reeds met. He creates a universe in his own image and his people end up casting him down. He explains this to Valeria as "I was a God...". "And?" Valeria asks. "I found it... beneath me." (perhaps the best line ever). Valeria then takes ownership of the space and states, "Here I can build". I do not believe Doom has any divine aspirations, I think he got that out of his system.

    I don't think Doom is responsible for the creation of Battleworld or the seeming memory wipe of it's denizens. Even with a sliver of Owen's power that would seem to be beyond him. Doom, Valeria, Owen, and eventually Dr. Strange I assume all had something to do with the planning of all this, and none of them but Owen would have that sort of power, and he appears to be gone. It would seem Franklin is the only one with that kind of power. Until Doom actually displays his supposed omnipotence, I'm going with him being a figurehead.

    As far as the planning and execution of Secret Wars, Hickman planted the seeds in Dark Reign Fantastic Four in 2009. His titles have been expanding on the same themes and plot threads since then. To my eyes this seems like a very natural evolution of the story. Bendis on the other hand had difficulty deciding whether chaos magic existed or not.

    P.S. Characters with flaws are interesting, but I'm not sure people are looking for the dark anti-heroes everyone seems to writing. Every character in the new 52 was kind of a dick and we see how well that turned out. Setting the tone along the lines of the Flash series as opposed to the Arrow series will hopefully be the path forward. The success of GOTG both in the cinematic universe and the Abnett and Lanning volumes of the comics (not the bendis-y teenage angst hero vs hero kind) are a testament to that.
    So you are suggesting Doom is also subjected to whatever is going on in Battleworld, and Victor is only the king of the Barons? What does that suppose happened in New Avengers #33, when Doom and the Beyonders finally met? Who was shouting, " No, no, no". Was it the Beyonders or Doom? If it was Doom who shouted no, then at the last moment, Doom was defeated by the Beyonders, and somehow, the Beyonders couldn't locate Battleworld in White space between dimensions, otherwise they would have destroyed it. But one version of Doom was placed on Battleworld by the original 616-Doom, so if he was defeated, at least an alternate version of Doom would remain on life boat Battleworld. Then Secret Wars becomes the survival of Battleworld, to become an Earth in the White space, for the duration, to avoid Beyonders discovering them. Like a pocket of bacteria hidden in a drain pipe after flushing an experiment down the drain hole.

  7. #52
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    It's always been a problem with comics to keep the characters fresh without tarnishing their reputation. Something like Secret Wars gives a very good jumping on point because it wipes away where everyone was at the moment of the Incursion. At this point in Secret Wars #2, nobody remembers the 616, and whatever the characters' current dramas were, are now irrelevant, and can't be revisted again after this, because the next planet status would do a soft reboot, and it would be like waking up after a mindwipe, and starting again. I'm not sure how Marvel are going to mix Ultimate characters, with Multiverse connections, into what was the old 616. But it should be sufficient to notice nothing from the previous 616 carries over as to their personal dramas. So if Spiderman was a loner and owned Parker Horizon Labs, in the old 616, after SW, Spidey will be married and have a kid, and maybe a sister, and his Aunt will be dead, and he won't have any trauma about it.
    I also think it is a good point for a soft reboot but people speculating about it since " Time runs out " started because everyone knew that Hickman trashed with his move a lot of characters and in UA we saw a similar situation where the earth was blown up. The only thing I knew about it that in Guardian 3000 a girl as reference point for time-travel prior to the incursion was introduced.

    If Spidey really gets a reboot I will try him again About the Ultimate characters I think the only one who sales is this other Spider-Man , so we will see.
    I'm not sure what all will happen because a lot of info is unclear and sometimes Marvel decide at last minute not to do it.

    About "It's always been a problem with comics to keep the characters fresh without tarnishing their reputation." I can only say that in the past they never went this far how in the last years. I can only think about that the reason is this dark, darker, at darkest trend which hopefully ends at some point, at least also the guys which made some reviews about Avengers 2 sounded mostly tired about this one point.
    Last edited by TakoM; 05-20-2015 at 05:57 AM.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakoM View Post
    I also think it is a good point for a soft reboot but people speculating about it since " Time runs out " started because everyone knew that Hickman trashed with his move a lot of characters and in UA we saw a similar situation where the earth was blown up. The only thing I knew about it that in Guardian 3000 a girl as reference point for time-travel prior to the incursion was introduced.

    If Spidey really gets a reboot I will try him again About the Ultimate characters I think the only one who sales is this other Spider-Man , so we will see.
    I'm not sure what all will happen because a lot of info is unclear and sometimes Marvel decide at last minute not to do it.

    About "It's always been a problem with comics to keep the characters fresh without tarnishing their reputation." I can only say that in the past they never went this far how in the last years. I can only think about that the reason is this dark, darker, at darkest trend which hopefully ends at some point, at least also the guys from made some reviews about Avengers 2 sounded mostly tired about this one point.
    The way the super heroes of the MU got dark, darker, darkest towards the end of the Heroic Age was troubling to a lot of people, because it did tarnish the heroes to some extent. It added a sour taste to what super heroes are supposed to inspire in people, by showing heroes use expediency over ultruism. Maybe the modern world is ready for heroes using expediency now, because so much of life is so complicated and uncontrollable? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe Steve Rogers' antiquated approach to ethics still has a place in the Modern world. Certainly, the Steve Rogers Ultruism would make for a refreshing hope to cling to in an ever confusing political breakdown we are experiencing now. The world is being recreated into its own Battleworld, much like what Secret Wars looks like, with many diverse sectors of the world trying to forge alliances, and combat other sectors that are threatening. Mix that with strong new economic environs emerging that make established strong sectors vulnerable, and you do have Barons appearing world wide with their own powers to make laws in their controlled areas.

    I can't recognize the world of today, from the way governments were the stable structures of my past. I see lots of corruption, multinational corporation control of government, world acceptance of corporations who worked with Nazis continuing like nothing happened, the brittle structure that held countries secure before, fear that newspapers nurtur in their communities with their private agendas, government nurtur of fears to manipulate acceptance of policy. Its straight out of Star Wars. You look at what the Avengers turned out like, SHIELD Avengers, in Time Runs Out, and you see that the Avengers were compromised from their independence, into a government stooge.
    Last edited by jackolover; 05-19-2015 at 08:00 PM.

  9. #54
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    The way the super heroes of the MU got dark, darker, darkest towards the end of the Heroic Age was troubling to a lot of people, because it did tarnish the heroes to some extent. It added a sour taste to what super heroes are supposed to inspire in people, by showing heroes use expediency over ultruism. Maybe the modern world is ready for heroes using expediency now, because so much of life is so complicated and uncontrollable? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe Steve Rogers' antiquated approach to ethics still has a place in the Modern world. Certainly, the Steve Rogers Ultruism would make for a refreshing hope to cling to in an ever confusing political breakdown we are experiencing now. The world is being recreated into its own Battleworld, much like what Secret Wars looks like, with many diverse sectors of the world trying to forge alliances, and combat other sectors that are threatening. Mix that with strong new economic environs emerging that make established strong sectors vulnerable, and you do have Barons appearing world wide with their own powers to make laws in their controlled areas.

    I can't recognize the world of today, from the way governments were the stable structures of my past. I see lots of corruption, multinational corporation control of government, world acceptance of corporations who worked with Nazis continuing like nothing happened, the brittle structure that held countries secure before, fear that newspapers nurtur in their communities with their private agendas, government nurtur of fears to manipulate acceptance of policy. Its straight out of Star Wars. You look at what the Avengers turned out like, SHIELD Avengers, in Time Runs Out, and you see that the Avengers were compromised from their independence, into a government stooge.
    I could say more than 10k words about the state of the real world becasue my other hobbies are economic and politic(and some astro-physic and quantal-physic) besides being a computer scientist. Okay I try to focus first "acceptance of corporations who worked with Nazis continuing like nothing happened" is a little unfair I don't believe there is any Nazi still in some corporation if you do the math you will see there aren't many people around any more of this time say he/she was 16 old in 1939 when WW2 started he/she would be this year 92 old. Maybe that is the reason they switched Steve Rogers because his enemies start to feel ancient like himself.

    There a re things I see which will be better because there is no way around it because those are base mechanics.( I'm talk about 3-printer automation through robots and the changes which are basically forced on the society in the long run in this case) What makes me worry is that politics often say that something must be going this way because it should be like this e.g Greece should be staying with the Euro currency because there is no other option. Hell even if it is the better option I can't phantom why politics thinks the world would be giving a damn about what they believe? This way they will never have a plan B. We had a couple of such cases another example is we need to increase our free-trading with Russia and China with this we ensure peace ...... what they did was feeding the wolf until he is big and scary.

    The thing which are changed the most is how we see the world now. In the 50,60,70th the U.S government overthrow a lot of democratic elected governments in the world to install dictators who were friendly to the U.S.A and their companies. We had also in the cold-war staged terror attacks from super secret NATO group to put it on the socialists(Gladio) etc. What changed is we can all access such information by ourselves ,we have multiply channels besides the public ones like TV and newspaper through that is it is much easier to check what politics do now. This is called virtual democracy I would say politics aren't used to this yet but it is also true that many tasks were laid down becasue politics wanted to avoid a clear discussion so they all got backed up. So many people feel that those called elites failed or mislead them because of this I can only hope this will not end with a witch hunt against them instead of solving the problems and elect new people

    About the comcis I can only say around the time of X-Men 1 movie and than 9/11 people said they need heroes to hold on it as an example how you can master you life and reinforce your believes or something like that. The current situation is like the well is starting to get try because those ideals don't comeback from outside the comics. The other thing is I think maybe people want to harden themselves with this kind of dark and evil story.?

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Yes, I can see an irrelevance to considering Nazi affiliated companies or personnel in the same light today. I just pointed it out because it is so easy to fall into that habit again next time it comes around.

    I noticed bikies in Australia are using 3D printers to make machine guns. Very disturbing. And there has been criticism of USA Foreign policy for decades now. The example of the European common market brow beating Greece into accepting membership with stipulations, does sound a lot like the World Bank tying heavy loads around the necks of African nations with on going loans years ago.

    Yes, alternate media has been around a long time, so wider information shouldn't be that hard to find.

    Your discussion of comics not getting feedback from outside the comics is an interesting one, coupled with your next statement that people might harden themselves with this type of dark and evil story. If the world has descending into this bleak world, where everyone is suspicious of motive, I would think they would yearn for the ultruistic hero to touch that part inside them that needs the truth. Then you see what comics are written about today, and you have to wonder about that, because it is all dark and evil. We may just have to accept that the world and our perception had lowered in moral value.. I don't know. What we may be seeing is the result of decades of freedom to express ourselves and allowing in a lot of culture to 'round' ourselves out. What we could judge as lowered moral values in ourselves could just be a symptom of social negotiation, and it may be the price of that negotiation we have to pay? I do see that other more stringent cultures judge western culture very critically because it has nurtured excesses as a by product, but that doesn't mean we throw out social negotiation just because of the marginalised. But it does mean we are responsible for the control of the excess. I look at government dependance on gambling tax revenue and seeing the social depression of problem gamblers, and the attraction of this revenue out-weighing the social responsibility to end that cycle and outlaw gambling.

    These are complicated times.
    Last edited by jackolover; 05-21-2015 at 05:53 AM.

  11. #56
    Spideyparker75
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    On a Star Destroyer over Tatooine
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    Dr Doom has to be one of the most recognisable characters in comic book history. Right up there with Darth Vader.

    Love him. I do think even at this stage that although he fancies himself as a God he actually isnt.

    I havent read # 2 of SW yet but I have a feeling that killing Doom might reset a lot of things. Remember Im a newbie so forgive me for my naivety.

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