Son Of Batman movie

[ABH]

Actually, Subzero is one of the most acclaimed of the animated Batman films, and I really loved it. Heck it's got a higher critical rating on RT than Mask of the Phantasm. It was a great little movie. To compare it to this is ludicrous. Actually, I enjoyed JL: War more than this. At least JLW was kind of fun in a big dumb punch-um up kind of way. This was just bad.

See, I do remember it being pretty good (at least production wise), but I can't remember all of the specifics.

Justice League: War was just sort of bland to me, but then, the source material didn't really do much, either. Not that it doesn't have enjoyable moments.

I wasn't going to make the comparison (out of fear of lynching...) but for me it stands nicely by Mask of the Phantasm.

I don't know how to respond to that.

I saw Flashpoint the other day. I thought that was pretty good, while making abbreviations similar to those in Batman and Son.

I need to revisit Flashpoint, to see how a feel about. I'm not usually the kind of person to shy away from violence, but Flashpoint just seems overly gory, for some reason.

[ispacehead]

See, I do remember it being pretty good (at least production wise), ....

My recollection is that there was something about the animation effects in Subzero that made them, at the time, cutting edge.

It did look nice, I just don't recall the actual story having any great impact.

Rereading the synopsis doesn't bring back any great moments for me either.

I don't know how to respond to that.

Oh, come now...it's not as thought MOTP is completely void of silliness.

I need to revisit Flashpoint, to see how a feel about. I'm not usually the kind of person to shy away from violence, but Flashpoint just seems overly gory, for some reason.

I didn't read it in print cuz I don't do those types of books.

I'll usually watch even the bad animated DC films though.

I thought it was entertaining.

[EdwardNigma]

It is the worst Batman movie I have ever seen outside of Batman and Robin. Yes it is that bad.

[ispacehead]

It is the worst Batman movie I have ever seen outside of Batman and Robin.

Putting Batman and Son up against the cinematic Batman films actually gives it an advantage in my estimation.

There are so many things about Batman that just don't work in an actual film.

[phonogram12]

I liked it, myself, certainly more than War. I think this is a good start to the new animated movie continuity they're creating for Batman.

[ispacehead]

I think this is a good start to the new animated movie continuity they're creating for Batman.

I'm curious to see how it plays out.

It seems to me that if Damian returns as Robin, we might not get anything else from this run in animated form.

If Damian does not return, it would seem more likely that we might at very least get an Incorporated adaptation of some sort.

I'm definitely interested to see what the next Batman adaptation will be.

[Vakanai]

I said it before, I didn't really get the hate for this movie. Sure it isn't Red Hood good, or Dark Knight Returns good, but it's a decent fun Batman movie. I think the problem is it isn't Morrison's story or something spectacular. Apparently taking a title or idea from a well loved or whatever story and making it into a mildly mediocre movie is some great super sin now. That's the worst thing about this film, it's mildly mediocre. Somehow that makes it super, unforgivably bad. But if you take away the expectations from the comic and judge it by it's own merits, you'll find it isn't super terrible worst film ever, just a mediocre one. And those who find it worse than JL:War have weird tastes, it ain't JL:War bad (worst DC animated film to date, and I don't even think that's terrible, I enjoyed it, but my enjoyment doesn't make it less the worst [I just killed grammer]).

And I actually enjoy it for what it is. Super praise worthy? No. Fun Batman flick to kill some time? Hell's yeah. Jason O'Mara went from possibly the worst Batman voice actor in War to one of my top five favorites in Son of. Seriously, how can the same man with the same voice give such vastly different performances? I actually dreaded a little bit hearing he was returning as Batman in this, and now I would be actually kind of excited and eased knowing he was returning for a third film. He's no Kevin Conroy, but he just might be Bruce Greenwood good (maybe). That step up in performance alone places this heads and shoulders above JL:War.

The other voices weren't so bad either, even if not great. Talia sounded sexy even if a little less exotic, Damian sounded like a bratty child (what do people want, for him to come out quoting Shakespeare?), and Deathstroke sounded Deathstroke-ish (no Ron Perlman, but decent enough voice-wise if not character-wise). The action was top notch and exciting, even if the first ninja stuff was ridiculous and Damian shouldn't be anywhere near that strong (when fighting an adult he should dodge not block, he's tiny dang it). Talia was one well drawn piece of eye candy, the Batmobile looked cool, the scenery was well drawn, and everything just looked well designed and animated. For a throwaway "hey let's have ninja Man-Bats" idea it actually flowed into the story organically rather than feel ham-fisted in, which you have got to admit for such a crazy let's throw it in a story concept is pretty impressive. If whoever wrote them into the script wrote Venom into Spider-Man 3 Tobey would still be Spidey. It had a clear beginning middle and end, the story tied up all loose ends, and again it was fun even if not animated cinematic history. If this is the worst Batman film DC/WB has animated (which I'd argue it isn't cough*Gotham Knight*cough) then we are spoiled rotten people. I wish they'd make a couple of Wonder Woman films this terrible, I would have a field day of joy. If the upcoming Aquaman film is only this terrible I'd feel pretty happy about it.

It helps I also like Morrison's date rape retcon and am glad they kept that in.

My recollection is that there was something about the animation effects in Subzero that made them, at the time, cutting edge.

I remember, vaguely, some deal made out of the CG in SubZero, mostly when Dick chases Freeze on a motorcycle, and the Batwing.
It's actually a nice little movie. Forgettable sure, but a rather pleasant 'kill an hour and a half' kind of forgettable.

Oh, come now...it's not as thought MOTP is completely void of silliness.

The scene with Bruce talking to/at his parents' grave/headstone is cheesy and silly as hell, and don't let anybody tell you differently. Even as a child I thought that was an incredibly hammy moment. MOTP has cheese and ham to spare.

[daningotham]

Wow, finally got around to seeing this. How they can say it is based on Batman and Son is beyond me. They re-wrote pretty much the entire story. Wasn't Grant Morrison's story that is for sure. I enjoyed the story that was told in the comic much better. That being said, if I don't think about the story in the comic it wasn't bad. But if someone is looking to see the story that Grant told, they will be very disappointed.

[oasis1313]

I liked it. Especially when Damian beat up Deathstroke.

[The Red Monk]

It had a clear beginning middle and end, the story tied up all loose ends, and again it was fun even if not animated cinematic history. If this is the worst Batman film DC/WB has animated (which I'd argue it isn't cough*Gotham Knight*cough) then we are spoiled rotten people.

Why do many people hate Batman: Gotham Knight? I'd argue it's actually one of the better animated Batman films. Certainly better than Son of Batman (although I agree with your overall analysis that it isn't that bad).

[t hedge coke]

It was a huge letdown for me, in terms of voice acting, plotting, most of the character designs, and truly stupid dialogue like Batman narrating while alone with Croc about Croc's birth name and MO and all.

Made so much worse for being released relatively close to the very good Marjorie Liu fueled Black Widow/Punisher movie.

[LoneNecromancer]

It was a huge letdown for me, in terms of voice acting, plotting, most of the character designs, and truly stupid dialogue like Batman narrating while alone with Croc about Croc's birth name and MO and all.

Yeah, I'll agree with all that, it failed across the board. It's a struggle to think of any redeeming points for me.

[Vakanai]

Wow, finally got around to seeing this. How they can say it is based on Batman and Son is beyond me. They re-wrote pretty much the entire story. Wasn't Grant Morrison's story that is for sure. I enjoyed the story that was told in the comic much better. That being said, if I don't think about the story in the comic it wasn't bad. But if someone is looking to see the story that Grant told, they will be very disappointed.

This, I'd argue, is the real reason so many people here find this to have no redeeming qualities, they keep comparing it to the stricter 'adaptation' they wanted rather than 'new origin for film' they got.

Why do many people hate Batman: Gotham Knight? I'd argue it's actually one of the better animated Batman films. Certainly better than Son of Batman (although I agree with your overall analysis that it isn't that bad).

I can't speak for everyone, but why I think Gotham Knight is the worst animated Batman (and again, even if it is the worst it also isn't really that bad, it's like saying which yummy apple is the least yummy apple with these films [also, putting emphasis on 'that' means you think it's bad, and I still just don't find it or any of these actually bad, even in a 'not that bad' kind of bad]):

1. Anthology type stories. Just these 'several mini-stories in a episode/movie' type things automatically deduct a lot of points with me. There are a few anthology type stories and films that do it good and that I enjoy, but those have always been the rare outliers, and as story telling devices go it is one I'm not fond of.
2. It isn't a particularly good story, or stories. Sure, some are pretty neat, but several just wasn't as up to snuff.
3. Kevin Conroy's weakest performance. I don't know what it was, but like how O'Mara's good Son of Batman's performance helped make up for his terrible JL:War performance, Conroy's Gotham Knight performance was just not good, and this is the guy who is the voice of Batman, and that just bothers me.
4. No great villain.
5. Different anime styles. I liked plenty of the different anime styles in the film, but my problem was they didn't stick with just one, every story was a different anime style, and I felt it would have been a lot better if there had just been one throughout.

Those are my reasons why Gotham Knight is the worst animated Bat-movie, and why it isn't as good as Son of Batman. Still like it though, like I still like Son of Batman.

[LoneNecromancer]

This, I'd argue, is the real reason so many people here find this to have no redeeming qualities, they keep comparing it to the stricter 'adaptation' they wanted rather than 'new origin for film' they got.

Yeah... nah. The original comic is arguably one of the weakest stories in the Morrison run and yet it looks like Watchmen in comparison to what we were given. I didn't expect a huge amount of similarities, it's just that I was hoping the changes would be good.

[Vakanai]

Yeah... nah. The original comic is arguably one of the weakest stories in the Morrison run and yet it looks like Watchmen in comparison to what we were given. I didn't expect a huge amount of similarities, it's just that I was hoping the changes would be good.

Eh, to each their own I guess. I still say the voice acting was a remarkable improvement over JL:War and that the animation and character designs looked good, as far as redeeming qualities go.