Thread Drift: Mutant "Blackness"

[UltimateTy]

This is a really silly thread, wow.

[Habis]

I just wanna add one thing to this awful thread: where you are from does not make you not a specific race. I.E. you don't have to have direct African ancestors to classify as black. I have european features due to generations of slavery and whatnot but just because I don't look anything like someone in North Africa doesn't make me non-black. Reminds of this kid I used to go to school with who refused to classify as black (even though he looked like your typical north african with very dark skin and coarse hair as well as the body structure) specifically because he was born in Italy. Compared to him, I was frickin Snow White but he convinced himself that being born in a particular region makes you not a race. #stupidity

Jesus Christ the race issue when it comes to black characters on this board is atrocious. "Bishop isn't black, he's Austrailain." "Storm isn't black!" "Monet and Sunspot are biracial so not black." etc. It's peeving. If you don't know of the subject beyond despicably dated ignorance, do not share your thoughts. Thanks.

If you are speaking about me, I said that Bishop is indeed Black:

I'm not arguing that Bishop is Black. He obviously is Black.

I just don't think it's correct to say that he's Afro-American because his ancestors where Aboriginals, not Africans. They are non-African Black people.

I'm not arguing that Bishop is Black. He obviously is Black. But I think calling him Afro-anything wouldn't be correct. The world is full of dark-skinned people who aren't African: Melanesians, Australian Aboriginals, South Indians, Andamanese...etc.

Afro-American means an American who has African ancestors. Aboriginals aren't from Africa, their ancestors have lived in Australia for at least 55,000 years.
It would be like calling all White people "Anglo-saxon"; Russians, Polish, Danish, German, French...etc. are non-Anglo-saxon Whites.

I know the American government likes to put everybody in like four boxes, but the world is way more complex than that.

Anyways, why don't you ask an Australian Aboriginal or a Melanesian or an Andamanese how does he/she want to be called? I guess they would want to be called either Aboriginal/Melanesian/Andamanese or Black, but not African or Afro-American, because they don't have any ties to Africa.

[Arya]

This is a really silly thread, wow.

Yes it is.

[BroHomo]

This is a really silly thread, wow.

Unlike the million that spring up each time a LGBTQ non cis-gender character so much sneezes? This a comic book forum, nothing is "silly"

[C-Dot]

LOL Are you serious there is no such thing as a typical North African. In Libya alone you can find several different tribes that have different physical characteristics the berber tribe looks different than the Toubou tribe and that is just in one country. However o enlightened one please tell us what typical North African features are because a Nubian and a Algerian will not share the same features. Just because someone looks like they have the characteristics of a group does not mean that they are of that race. Genetics is more than just outside looks.

What you said about Libyans apply to Algerians too. You could definitely find a Nubian and a Algerian with shared features because not all Algerians are the same.




http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/ima...a-building.jpg

All of the above are Algerian people with obvious differences compared to what some perceive all Algerian people to be based on pop.. People with black descent in North Africa, Israel, and the Middle East exist. And unfortunately, there are some problems over there.

[Tazpocalapse]

He was genetically negroid. Both his parents. He didn't understand that nationality =/= race. Don't start this issue with me, I was clear. Italian isn't a race. If someone were to ask my ethnicity, it's Brazilian-American, nationality American but my race is black. He was a black kid with black parents that migrated to Italy had him, then moved to the U.S. That's his story in a nutshell (and why none of them spoke any Italian).

You're one of those people that looks for holes. "Bleach will kill you" I say. Your retort "Well, we don't know that. It may kill, it may not." If it walks like a duck and quacks, it's not a bloody dog.

Also, typical negroid features from West(that's what I meant; pardon me as I had just come from overnight party and was tipsy as phuc) Africa isn't ignorant, it's a fact. Excuse me that my vernacular didn't sugarcoat the point. Black is black. It's unfortunate that whenever the question of one's race is brought up, if they are black people are quick to whitewash it, make up some bullsh!t excuse for it, or plain not accept it. That only happens with black characters or characters with black parents and it's disgusting. Taz, step tfo.

You said he looked like a typical North African i responded by informing you that North Africans do not have a typical look. They have many tribal groups in North Africa that features range across the spectrum.

Hey was just pointing out the elephant in the room.

Im not whitewashing anything just pointing out on panel and other obvious things. You tried to stand on a soap box and call others ignorant for having a discussion. So since you decided to instantly attack and not sugarcoat anything i responded in kind. Bye Felicia.

[Arya]

Goddess isn't wrong. She called people ignorant because from jump this thread was about questioning, downplaying, minimizing, and whiping out Storm's ethnic identity which is racist and dumb. Then it dive bombed into a silly discussion of what is blackness then it turned into a strange conversation about race where the default was posters determining what blackness was. So yes bye Tazo bye.

[RandyMcDonald]

Afro-American means an American who has African ancestors. Aboriginals aren't from Africa, their ancestors have lived in Australia for at least 55,000 years.
It would be like calling all White people "Anglo-saxon"; Russians, Polish, Danish, German, French...etc. are non-Anglo-saxon Whites.

I'd say it would be more like calling all non-white people black. Africa is a large continent, with by far the longest history of human inhabitation of any. The amount of human genetic diversity outside of Africa is but a subset of the diversity actually existing inside Africa now.

Regarding the whole question of whether or not Africans and Aborigines share a common "black" identity, as an interesting outsider I'd have to say "It's depends."

http://parablemania.ektopos.com/arch...al_survey.html

http://hyperallergic.com/36557/austr...ican-diaspora/

https://overland.org.au/2015/03/are-...-in-australia/

https://culturematters.wordpress.com...ia-and-the-us/

While contemporary Aborigine populations are genetically distinct from African populations, certain Aborigines to seem to identify with a "black" identity that links up with African and African diaspora identities, largely for political reasons.
I know the American government likes to put everybody in like four boxes, but the world is way more complex than that.

Anyways, why don't you ask an Australian Aboriginal or a Melanesian or an Andamanese how does he/she want to be called? I guess they would want to be called either Aboriginal/Melanesian/Andamanese or Black, but not African or Afro-American, because they don't have any ties to Africa.[/QUOTE]

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Both Sunspot and Storm are black

[Paleo_Rage]

Some of the illogical assertions in this thread have me so sad. I really do not understand why people find its ok to interrogate someones blackness(whether they are too black, half black or not enough black), this never happens to someones whiteness. And anytime a white character is changed via various methods to a character of color there is an uproar but if a poc character is whitened i.e. sunspot and Monet's skin color not a peep is heard. I am going to need people to get an education. One other thing while race is a social construct, the realities of race are not. Also race, ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing, people need to stop conflating them. Also the terms negroid,monologoid are outdated scientific terms that were used to try to make a argument about the biological differences in races(these ideas and theories have been debunked). So Chris Claremont was wrong to even use them in that comic book

[Arya]

Some of the illogical assertions in this thread have me so sad. I really do not understand why people find its ok to interrogate someones blackness(whether they are too black, half black or not enough black), this never happens to someones whiteness. And anytime a white character is changed via various methods to a character of color there is an uproar but if a poc character is whitened i.e. sunspot and Monet's skin color not a peep is heard. I am going to need people to get an education. One other thing while race is a social construct, the realities of race are not. Also race, ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing, people need to stop conflating them. Also the terms negroid,monologoid are outdated scientific terms that were used to try to make a argument about the biological differences in races(these ideas and theories have been debunked). So Chris Claremont was wrong to even use them in that comic book

Best post so far and thank you.

[ed2962]

Even before this, Storm's features were directly mentioned in the comic. During the first appearance of Kitty Pryde, Kitty says something like "How come you don't look like the normal black kids at my school? Your hair, your weird eyes..." And Storm says something like "I'm one of a kind"

I don't think that this was an attempt to negate Storm's blackness as much as it's acknowledging Dave Cockrum's cat lady design for Ororo and suggest that it's part of her mutation. I mean, most fans and creators think of Storm as a black woman.

[C-Dot]

Even before this, Storm's features were directly mentioned in the comic. During the first appearance of Kitty Pryde, Kitty says something like "How come you don't look like the normal black kids at my school? Your hair, your weird eyes..." And Storm says something like "I'm one of a kind"

I don't think that this was an attempt to negate Storm's blackness as much as it's acknowledging Dave Cockrum's cat lady design for Ororo and suggest that it's part of her mutation. I mean, most fans and creators think of Storm as a black woman.

But whatever you do, don't surprise her with a mohawk.....

[anyajenkins]

Kitty takes hair styles very seriously...

I thought I remembered some people pointing that Monet was too light and he responded that he and the artist went back and looked at old issues and agreed that she should be darker. Or am I remembering that wrong (been sleep deprived recently)

[Tracer Bullet]

I think Monet and Bishop are the only ones who've really had any Blackness(in terms of Afrodescendancy) negated, but moreso with the former in terms of appearance.

That Claremont panel isn't such a huge contradiction, because it's been proven scientifically that indigenous Africans have a lot of genetic diversity. Some tribes have the epicanthal fold associated with East Asians, some have looser, straighter hair,etc.