Thread Drift: Mutant "Blackness"

[ian0delond]

Completely different. If someone says "I'd like to see a dark skinned guy" then yeah he counts, but otherwise, no. Storm and Sunspot are not the same and if you want to do justice to one you wouldn't give either/or.

Yeah Storm is not even really Black she is from Africa unlike Sunspot.

[Hypestyle]

Yeah Storm is not even really Black she is from Africa unlike Sunspot.

uhh... are people being serious? let me exit this thread before...

[ian0delond]

uhh... are people being serious? let me exit this thread before...

um duh.
She lived her youth as a godess in Africa.
Sunspot is the descendant of slaves, has been confronted to ethnic diversity .
He is way blacker than Ororo could ever be.

[vitruvian]

um duh.
She lived her youth as a godess in Africa.
Sunspot is the descendant of slaves, has been confronted to ethnic diversity .
He is way blacker than Ororo could ever be.

Look up her parents, then get back to us.

[Darth Phoenix]

Look up her parents, then get back to us.

This reminds me of when people came after Storm for blue eyes and White hair.

sunspot is mixed or are we back on Jim Crow laws?

[Tofali]

um duh.
She lived her youth as a godess in Africa.
Sunspot is the descendant of slaves, has been confronted to ethnic diversity .
He is way blacker than Ororo could ever be.

Are you serious? So the new definition of being black now is being a descendant of slaves? idk maybe this just an American POV that i don't understand.

[tsaimelemoni]

Are you serious? So the new definition of being black now is being a descendant of slaves? idk maybe this just an American POV that i don't understand.

If it is an American POV, it is not widely shared or voiced.

[MrHashasheen]

It's a POV that assumes "blackness" is an inherently American construct, based on slavery, Jim Crow, Booker T Washington, Civil Rights movement, etc.... and that other black communities in other countries like the UK or France are inherently different black communities (even though intermixing is quite different and the American black community and France has some interesting historical ties...).

Again, it's a specialized thing. Is blackness a cultural thing? Do Africans count as black, since Africans also have the ability to be Indian, White, Arab, Berber, etc... Would they even care about the appellation, since tribal ties are so much more important there than sharing a skin-tone?

Storm is different from Sunspot by virtue of her heritage and upbringing, things that Sunspot by his very own heritage and upbringing he cannot have and will not represent. So when someone says "he's a black character, she's a black character," there's a sense that you might as well say "be satisfied with what you get, even if what you get isn't nuanced or doesn't represent you directly". I mean, should a Deep South brother identify regardless of anything with Icon, a Northern upper-class conservative alien who has a black identity? Sure, Icon lived through slavery, Jim Crow, etc... but that's not an argument to take him up as his representative in comics.

Take it like this. Let's say they introduced Kamala Khan as a Pakistani-American, in contrast to her parents and older brother, who remember Pakistan quite well. That friction is an underlying element of her story. Would that element exist if they didn't set out to make those differences, and just made her a random brown girl from a vaguely Muslim family?

I know, it's quite complicated. Racial politics usually are, and I say this as Christian-turned-Muslim who was raised in the most diverse country in the Middle East.

[PwrdOn]

It's a POV that assumes "blackness" is an inherently American construct, based on slavery, Jim Crow, Booker T Washington, Civil Rights movement, etc.... and that other black communities in other countries like the UK or France are inherently different black communities (even though intermixing is quite different and the American black community and France has some interesting historical ties...).

Again, it's a specialized thing. Is blackness a cultural thing? Do Africans count as black, since Africans also have the ability to be Indian, White, Arab, Berber, etc... Would they even care about the appellation, since tribal ties are so much more important there than sharing a skin-tone?

Black identity politics vary across different countries but there are some troublesome commonalities, most prominently with fairer skinned individuals of mixed backgrounds claiming superior status without much resistance from dark skinned people. Even in America where racial lines are very clear cut, light skinned people are disproportionately represented in prominent and visible roles, such as with W.E.B. DuBois, Thurgood Marshall, Malcolm X, and of course Barack Obama. In other places these people will actively deny that they are "black" at all and create new labels for themselves. While it's all well and good to celebrate all the parts of your heritage, these people are crafting a hierarchy that places them below whites, and holding up an ideal image that you do not personally fit is never really healthy for your self confidence.

[vitruvian]

Are you serious? So the new definition of being black now is being a descendant of slaves? idk maybe this just an American POV that i don't understand.

Not really. Even if we're being parochial and going at it from a strictly American (i.e., US, not American continents) POV, first generation immigrants from Africa (apart from Afrikaners, naturally) are generally considered black or African-American just as the descendants of slaves are, whether you ask the Census, the schools, or most folks on the street. If you expand it to globally, of course, the terminology used to describe race, ethnicity, and skin tone varies widely.

[Tazpocalapse]

Look up her parents, then get back to us.

Actually Storm is not considered Black according to the X-Office. In a X-men issue 2 doctors have a conversation stating Storm is not Black, she is said to have the racial attributes of all races. Why Marvel decided to do this is anyones guess.

[Nipower888]

Actually Storm is not considered Black according to the X-Office. In a X-men issue 2 doctors have a conversation stating Storm is not Black, she is said to have the racial attributes of all races. Why Marvel decided to do this is anyones guess.

But aside from her hair and eyes (which while not common for black people are definitely possible) nothing makes her not black. She has dark skin, is from Kenya, and she has an African American dad. She's clearly black. Marvel and the x-office are silly for not thinking so.

[Tazpocalapse]

But aside from her hair and eyes (which while not common for black people are definitely possible) nothing makes her not black. She has dark skin, is from Kenya, and she has an African American dad. She's clearly black. Marvel and the x-office are silly for not thinking so.

I agree with you, i find it funny that the X-office took the time to explain this on-panel to the readers. This is after she was supposedly killed and had been de aged by Nanny. This was a new start for the character and this is one of the first things we learn about her.

[Kuwagaton]

Didn't Claremont write that?

I used to really resent her blue eyes and white hair, but Wolverine had an afro and a natural aptitude for basketball, so it's even.

[Tazpocalapse]

Didn't Claremont write that?

I used to really resent her blue eyes and white hair, but Wolverine had an afro and a natural aptitude for basketball, so it's even.

Yes i believe Claremont did. I don't have a problem with her hair or eye color. Basketball skills are not a characteristic of any racial group.