Thread Drift: Mutant "Blackness"

[Tazpocalapse]

Well, the ancestors of the Europeans and Asians and Native Americans left Africa thousands of years after the ancestors of the Aboriginals did, so, if Australian Aboriginal-American are Afro-Americans, Native Americans, Asians and Caucasians would be too...

I never stated Bishop was a African American. I stated that he was aborigine and aborigine people had african ancestors. The use of the term African American is used by black people in the U.S. to denote a racial group of people born on American soil that origins reside on the African continent.Also it is used to describe black people living in America that originate from other parts of the world.The three groups you named all have different cultural names for members of the same race. A Caucasian French Canadein is still a caucasian person.

[Anthony Shaw]

We've had some discussions about that panel here and it's one of the many issues I've had with the X-office over the years.

This plus the complete destruction of Lucas Bishop make me wonder just how committed the X-books were when promoting non-white characters. As of today, there are no prominent black males on the X-men and if Storm (according to Claremont's nonsense) isn't really black.........there isn't much more to say is there.

Just wanted to put that out without derailing the thread.

Great post!

[Anthony Shaw]

Wasn't bishop only Half or Something?

Marvel used to have one very kick ass black american mutant who was smart, cute,friendly, a good leader and relateable to many who were not black but Marvel blew him up.

Attachment 22050

Lobdell created a very unique character in Synch. His character was slowly degraded before finally killed off not too long after Lobdell left the x-books.

Skin was a pretty cool character, too.

[Anthony Shaw]

Wrong.
This whole exchange started with you asking a question and me answering it and then you deciding you didn't like the answer. I didn't dictate anything on you.
You don't like Sunspot as an example of a black heterosexual man? You don't consider him black? You refuse to explain why? Fine, no skin off my back. But don't go pretending like I'm forcing anything on you. Next time if you don't want an answer, don't ask a question.



Yeah, you keep writing that in a very passive-aggressive way. Frankly, it tells me all I need to know about you and with that I'm done with this conversation.

It was explained more than once (with scans from other posters) that as a Brazilian, Sunspot cannot be simply classified as only black. Sunspot was never a prominent character in the X-Men. Sunspot has been better utilized as an Avenger than he ever was as X-Man spin-off character. His buddy Sam enjoyed a few stints on actual X-Men squads since the 1990's. Your example of Sunspot does not work. Then you brought up Storm, and more than one person disputed that, in addition to the scan I posted verified showing she is not black in the classical sense.

You telling me to be happy with just Sunspot would be me telling you to be happy with only Northstar (a character I always enjoyed, btw).

I never said that the X-Men representing the LGBT experience was a bad thing. You are wrong with your insinuations. I do think it is a bad thing that X-writers use aspects of the black experience in their stories without showcasing actual black characters.

Here you are casting aspersions about me in a passive-aggressive way when you posted this below....

Isn't that black enough for you?

Just imagine someone asking is a character gay enough for you?

Thanks for the LOL.

[Anthony Shaw]

lol, nobody sees Sunspot like that. The people demand Synch! Maybe he's already waiting on the moon for them.

You know what time it is!

[Habis]

I never stated Bishop was a African American. I stated that he was aborigine and aborigine people had african ancestors. The use of the term African American is used by black people in the U.S. to denote a racial group of people born on American soil that origins reside on the African continent.Also it is used to describe black people living in America that originate from other parts of the world.The three groups you named all have different cultural names for members of the same race. A Caucasian French Canadein is still a caucasian person.

I'm not arguing that Bishop is Black. He obviously is Black. But I think calling him Afro-anything wouldn't be correct. The world is full of dark-skinned people who aren't African: Melanesians, Australian Aboriginals, South Indians, Andamanese...etc. Calling them all African would be like calling all Asian Japanese or all Caucasians English.

That reminds me of a person who insisted on calling Afro-American a Black man who lived in Medieval Europe before the discovery of America. That man (the Medieval one) was of African ancestry, but he had nothing to do with America.

And by the way. Storm is Afro-American. Her mother is African, her father is Afro-American, she was born in America and grew in Africa; you can't possible be more Afro-American than that, and having blue eyes and white hair doesn't change that. She would still be Afro-American even if she were a full albino.

[vitruvian]

Actually Storm is not considered Black according to the X-Office. In a X-men issue 2 doctors have a conversation stating Storm is not Black, she is said to have the racial attributes of all races. Why Marvel decided to do this is anyones guess.

When her parents were African-American journalist David Munroe:



and African 'princess' N'Dare:



all I can say to that is... yeah, right. That one story has as much relevance to the continuity of the character as the one where Hercules tows a floating Manhattan around using big chains.

[Tazpocalapse]

I'm not arguing that Bishop is Black. He obviously is Black. But I think calling him Afro-anything wouldn't be correct. The world is full of dark-skinned people who aren't African: Melanesians, Australian Aboriginals, South Indians, Andamanese...etc. Calling them all African would be like calling all Asian Japanese or all Caucasians English.

That reminds me of a person who insisted on calling Afro-American a Black man who lived in Medieval Europe before the discovery of America. That man (the Medieval one) was of African ancestry, but he had nothing to do with America.

And by the way. Storm is Afro-American. Her mother is African, her father is Afro-American, she was born in America and grew in Africa; you can't possible be more Afro-American than that, and having blue eyes and white hair doesn't change that. She would still be Afro-American even if she were a full albino.

I have not called him African anything another poster did,at which point you decided to nitpick and bring up his Australian roots.The poster was obviously speaking on Bishops ethnicity and not his nationality which is what you seem to be focusing on.African is not a country or nationality. Japan and England are countries not a racial group this is my point.African -American is used along with black, and Negro to denote a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. This includes African American, Haitian, and Jamaicans. Again Ethnicity and nationality are seperate entities as i stated before.

That argument for Bishop does not work Bishop was born in Australia, but spent nearly all of his life in the U.S.A. he is American and happens to be black hence the poster reffering to him as a African-American.

I myself consider Storm Afro-American i brought Storm in reference to the topic.You do realise that a caucasian person born in Africa that moves to America can be considered African- American and still be caucasian, right?

[Tazpocalapse]

When her parents were African-American journalist David Munroe:



and African 'princess' N'Dare:



all I can say to that is... yeah, right. That one story has as much relevance to the continuity of the character as the one where Hercules tows a floating Manhattan around using big chains.

The panel could be commentary on her features instead of proof of her racial make-up.I think they conducted tests to find out who she was and mentioned that on panel.However it is possibly Storm inherited these features from some of her ancestors i believe she comes from a long line of Women who had similar features.

[Kuwagaton]

Shi'ar... Gladiator and a bunch of lame ass bird hair people. Count me out.

all I can say to that is... yeah, right. That one story has as much relevance to the continuity of the character as the one where Hercules tows a floating Manhattan around using big chains.

not that continuity ever matters to me so much, but it is the same writer who created her parents in the first place. Where he was going with the idea, who knows?

As for Hercules, I'm sure Rumble boarders live and die on that "feat."

[vitruvian]

Shi'ar... Gladiator and a bunch of lame ass bird hair people. Count me out.



not that continuity ever matters to me so much, but it is the same writer who created her parents in the first place. Where he was going with the idea, who knows?

As for Hercules, I'm sure Rumble boarders live and die on that "feat."

The early Claremont years are gold, especially Claremont with Cockrum, Byrne, Paul Smith, and some of the Romita years. After that, it's kind of like DK2 for Miller or Friday for Heinlein, you've gotta pick and choose.

And the thing with Hercules doesn't even help him in Rumbles. It's not like the complaint is that he's not strong enough to pull it (off), or even that the chains should just fracture the rock and pull out of it (maybe they're magic) it's that the island isn't going to float on the surface of the water while he's doing it like it doesn't usually rest on bedrock. The pan-racial thing obviously isn't as on its face ridiculous as that, and may have more to do with her mother's lineage (the Ashakes and Ayesha) always being kind of odd with the blue eyes and white hair thing than a denial of her immediate ancestry, but to take it as denial that she's black in American racial political terms is pretty silly.

[Kuwagaton]

The early Claremont years are gold, especially Claremont with Cockrum, Byrne, Paul Smith, and some of the Romita years. After that, it's kind of like DK2 for Miller or Friday for Heinlein, you've gotta pick and choose.

And the thing with Hercules doesn't even help him in Rumbles. It's not like the complaint is that he's not strong enough to pull it (off), or even that the chains should just fracture the rock and pull out of it (maybe they're magic) it's that the island isn't going to float on the surface of the water while he's doing it like it doesn't usually rest on bedrock. The pan-racial thing obviously isn't as on its face ridiculous as that, and may have more to do with her mother's lineage (the Ashakes and Ayesha) always being kind of odd with the blue eyes and white hair thing than a denial of her immediate ancestry, but to take it as denial that she's black in American racial political terms is pretty silly.

With Hercules, yeah, it's just like how Superboy towed planets in the fact that it simply doesn't work like that. My point was just as far as relevance goes, I'm sure there's a ton of people who don't give up on the incident.

With Storm, it just seems to come together to indicate that it's not as simple as calling her "black" the way we do referring to people in America.

And personally, I think Claremont's run peaked with Silvestri, but I love pretty much all of it.

[Tazpocalapse]

The early Claremont years are gold, especially Claremont with Cockrum, Byrne, Paul Smith, and some of the Romita years. After that, it's kind of like DK2 for Miller or Friday for Heinlein, you've gotta pick and choose.

And the thing with Hercules doesn't even help him in Rumbles. It's not like the complaint is that he's not strong enough to pull it (off), or even that the chains should just fracture the rock and pull out of it (maybe they're magic) it's that the island isn't going to float on the surface of the water while he's doing it like it doesn't usually rest on bedrock. The pan-racial thing obviously isn't as on its face ridiculous as that, and may have more to do with her mother's lineage (the Ashakes and Ayesha) always being kind of odd with the blue eyes and white hair thing than a denial of her immediate ancestry, but to take it as denial that she's black in American racial political terms is pretty silly.

Wait hold on was that comment about "to take it as denial that she's black in American racial political terms is prettysilly" Directed at me? If it was it is not silly at all. It is a observation of a panel.

[vitruvian]

Wait hold on was that comment about "to take it as denial that she's black in American racial political terms is prettysilly" Directed at me? If it was it is not silly at all. It is a observation of a panel.

She has an African-American father and an African mother. In terms of which circle she fills in on the Census or if she were going to high school, it's pretty simple, and the observations of that medical panel in a fairly obscure issue later in Claremont's tenure doesn't change that.

[Tazpocalapse]

She has an African-American father and an African mother. In terms of which circle she fills in on the Census or if she were going to high school, it's pretty simple, and the observations of that medical panel in a fairly obscure issue later in Claremont's tenure doesn't change that.

Plenty of characters have had parents shown on panel to later have that changed.We live in the age of the retcon for the hell of it.Showing your parents on panel means nothing, wanna be safe show your mother giving birth, and you might be able to avoid having Marvel pull a Quicksilver on you. The X-office has changed the race of a characters parents before to justify the race change of a character(Melita Garner). One of panels such as that have been used to change the origin of characters before and will be used again.