Are Peter's Love Interests Shallow Characters Due To Being Drawn As Attractive?

[CrimsonEchidna]

I don't really understand this thread at all. Compared to other comics where the significant other is always super hot, Peter has dated more homely women than other heroes and even in one case a manish appearing woman. Deb Whitman and Carlie Cooper were not attractive women.

Honestly, Carlie is "plain-looking" in the same sense that Peter Parker and Bella Swan are.

As far as the argument over whether or nor Pete is shallow. Honestly it's a dumb straw argument.

[Vegeta]

I think that just Dan Slott, being Dan Slott. He seems the say stuff like this all the time to defend "his girls". Like him saying that the fans are why Carlie failed. Cause we wouldn't give anybody not MJ, or Gwen a chance. which I don't really agree with since there a was few Peter/Norah, Peter/Carol, and even a few Peter/Michelle shipping going on in with fans during the BND era.

Maybe if he took the time to develop an actual relationship instead of just smushing them together and having every supporting character (even MJ) comment on how "perfect they are together," people could have responded more positively to the pairing. (For an example on how to do it right, look how Mark Waid used the slow burn with Kristen McDuffie in "Daredevil.") It also didn't help that even though she was super smart and "into roller derby" and tattoos, she was just kinda blah, it's no wonder people were more interested in shipping Pete and Norah or Michelle. They at least had personalities.

[AJpyro]

Maybe if he took the time to develop an actual relationship instead of just smushing them together and having every supporting character (even MJ) comment on how "perfect they are together," people could have responded more positively to the pairing. (For an example on how to do it right, look how Mark Waid used the slow burn with Kristen McDuffie in "Daredevil.") It also didn't help that even though she was super smart and "into roller derby" and tattoos, she was just kinda blah, it's no wonder people were more interested in shipping Pete and Norah or Michelle. They at least had personalities.

It's gonna take years to have that actual spark of romance but that's the right path to take. Having outsiders comment on how perfect a couple is without giving the readers an actual look into the romance and seeing interaction (aka show don't tell) is just lazy and won't win anyone over.

[Darthfury78]

Maybe if he took the time to develop an actual relationship instead of just smushing them together and having every supporting character (even MJ) comment on how "perfect they are together," people could have responded more positively to the pairing. (For an example on how to do it right, look how Mark Waid used the slow burn with Kristen McDuffie in "Daredevil.") It also didn't help that even though she was super smart and "into roller derby" and tattoos, she was just kinda blah, it's no wonder people were more interested in shipping Pete and Norah or Michelle. They at least had personalities.

You forget to add Lily Hollister and Betty Brant to the list. But the one character that could have worked for Peter is Jennifer Walters...

[powerpackers90]

Maybe if he took the time to develop an actual relationship instead of just smushing them together and having every supporting character (even MJ) comment on how "perfect they are together,"

Yeah MJ and Harry saying it was the worst.

MJ saying it was a slap in the face of 25+ years of stories. cause she said that Carlie was "stronger" than her, and she(MJ) couldn't handle him, but Carlie can. What the hell Marvel!?!?!?

Harry saying it was also BS, cause in that same arc she refused to help an in labor Lily/Menace, her BFF/Sister, because "she was a monster". Peter in the same situation, never stopped trying to help Harry when he was a Goblin. and also in the same arc she threaten to no show Harry's going away party to the WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM, cause Peter and her never had to relationship talk. basically blackmailed Peter in dating her, and gave us this panel.

CrazyCarlie.jpg

this is the face of somebody wanting a mature relationship.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

And let's be frank. Anna Maria isn't exactly ugly. She may be well below average height, but she is very far from being ugly. Also, like others have said, damn near every woman in comics is drawn as incredibly gorgeous, even if the artists try to cover it up with certain affectations or accessories that downplay their beauty. Peter being attracted to his various love interests isn't just because they're beautiful --- they're also often smart, witty, courageous, spirited, tenacious, passionate, loyal, and loving people, and that's what ultimately attracts him to them, more than their looks. For anyone to claim he's shallow because the women he dates, who have so many other worthwhile aspects and traits to them, happen to be stunningly beautiful on top of all of those aspects and traits would be to admit that they don't really know the first thing about his character.

Thank you! I've never read Superior Spider-Man, but I have seen pics of Anna Maria, and she's far from plain. Isn't it rather shallow in and of itself to say that a person with dwarfism can't be physically attractive? Or to say that someone physically attractive can't have a relationship without the relationship being shallow? I think this was just Slott trying to defend Otto as the "Superior" character.

[WebLurker]

Poor Liz. Everyone forgets that her name is supposed to be Allan.

Not in the comics I read.

Isn't she more happier than she ever was currently? She became the boss of her own business like Peter and found peace from the chaos from the live she shared with Peter.

On the other hand, alternate universes where she and Peter built a life together seem to be worth it to her, regardless of the chaos.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

On the other hand, alternate universes where she and Peter built a life together seem to be worth it to her, regardless of the chaos.

Heck, in at least Renew Your Vows story, she has her own business: a fashion shop called MJ's.

[Huntsman Spider]

Thank you! I've never read Superior Spider-Man, but I have seen pics of Anna Maria, and she's far from plain. Isn't it rather shallow in and of itself to say that a person with dwarfism can't be physically attractive? Or to say that someone physically attractive can't hook up without the relationship being shallow? I think this was just Slott trying to defend Otto as the "Superior" character.

You're welcome.

[marhawkman]

On the other hand, alternate universes where she and Peter built a life together seem to be worth it to her, regardless of the chaos.

Well, an easy boring life is probably unrewarding compared to a life where you have to struggle to get things you want to do done.

[WebLurker]

Well, an easy boring life is probably unrewarding compared to a life where you have to struggle to get things you want to do done.

Can't tell which one you're saying is which.

(Just noticed. Dan Slott hasn't chimed in yet. Kind of funny, given that he seems to like to give his two cents whenever controversy rears its head in these threads.)

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

I think most characters are drawn beautifully looking by most artists after Ditko, so nah.
Artists I think went for the more plain look for characters are Ron Frenz, Tom Lyle, and Ron Lim.

[Chapok]

Maybe if he took the time to develop an actual relationship instead of just smushing them together and having every supporting character (even MJ) comment on how "perfect they are together," people could have responded more positively to the pairing. (For an example on how to do it right, look how Mark Waid used the slow burn with Kristen McDuffie in "Daredevil.") It also didn't help that even though she was super smart and "into roller derby" and tattoos, she was just kinda blah, it's no wonder people were more interested in shipping Pete and Norah or Michelle. They at least had personalities.

Michelle annoyed me so much. Seriously, she was beyond obnoxious that wasn't even funny. Why did Peter never web her butt in the street or something? Part of the fun of the old Spidey is that he could do things Peter couldn't with persons he disliked. I miss that petty revenges Spidey had.

Bolded part is my whole problem with all of Peter's "affairs" lately (read "BND era to now"). It looks like they are just socked in the stories, but have no role aside rolling with the "Peter can't maintain a relationship because spiders". To be fair, that's not exclusively Slott's fault. Since the break up/OMD, I think there's some kind of resistence/fear in letting Peter build a long relationship with any girl not named "Mary Jane".

And, honestly, I agree the old readership are part of "problem". I concurr OMD was the dumbest idea ever, many of Spidey's best stories are from his married life (RNV it's the best take we have, mainly because Peter isn't an incompetent manchild), but it happened over a decade now. If Clark can try a new thing with Diana (brief or no, it was interesting and even refreshing, and New 52 Lois was a terrible character), Peter can try to find some happiness with... Bobbi? He can do better (it's my Peter x Sable shipping side talking, but nevermind), but, OH BOY, when Clint finds about it, hilarity ensues!

It's gonna take years to have that actual spark of romance but that's the right path to take. Having outsiders comment on how perfect a couple is without giving the readers an actual look into the romance and seeing interaction (aka show don't tell) is just lazy and won't win anyone over.

I hated how frequent that was pre-Big Time. It was like Carly had no merits (she hadn't, but it doesn't matter now) and need the "true girl" validations to everyone be sure she was perfect to Peter. God, it was dumb writing at max!

To complete, I remember MJ being all spiteful in her mind when she saw Peter actually happy with Carly (the old Watson's luck?).

I wouldn't mind with a new girl, but just let the said girl shine and rise by herself. I'm not expecting the next Gwen/Felicia/MJ, but I'm sure not expecting a boring love interest. Sincerly, I had some good expectatives with Lien, but, eh. It would be fun, but it sinked too quick. Well, at least wasn't Peter's fault (directly) that time.

And let's be frank. Anna Maria isn't exactly ugly. She may be well below average height, but she is very far from being ugly. Also, like others have said, damn near every woman in comics is drawn as incredibly gorgeous, even if the artists try to cover it up with certain affectations or accessories that downplay their beauty. Peter being attracted to his various love interests isn't just because they're beautiful --- they're also often smart, witty, courageous, spirited, tenacious, passionate, loyal, and loving people, and that's what ultimately attracts him to them, more than their looks. For anyone to claim he's shallow because the women he dates, who have so many other worthwhile aspects and traits to them, happen to be stunningly beautiful on top of all of those aspects and traits would be to admit that they don't really know the first thing about his character.

I think it's beyond that. Anna is amazingly well writed in comparison to other girls post-MJ, and that's exactly what I missing to care about any girl that will be Peter's girl in the future. But, let's hope...

Well, an easy boring life is probably unrewarding compared to a life where you have to struggle to get things you want to do done.

You know, that's a thing that kinda bothers me for a while... is it fair that's Peter's only fault by the relationship sinking? Yeah, no one is forced to suffer or keep living with fear of his/her mate doesn't return alive, or even worse, have his/her life putting yours in danger. But, everytime MJ appears, I feel she shows a somewhat resentful side about Peter, like it's exclusively his fault that they never became happy together. Yeah, Parker's luck and all, but it wouldn't add something if she have her own part on why it did never happen in the rewrited timeline? When you think about that, Peter recognize all of his faults, but and about her?