Are Peter's Love Interests Shallow Characters Due To Being Drawn As Attractive?

[Agent Z]

Positives outway the negatives. They could be Anna Maria and Silk at worst.

Felicia is/was a criminal. MJ was so depressed over her failing career she took up smoking at some point. I think you're greatly downplaying how flawed these women could be.

[jimishim12]

Felicia is/was a criminal. MJ was so depressed over her failing career she took up smoking at some point. I think you're greatly downplaying how flawed these women could be.

Isn't she more happier than she ever was currently? She became the boss of her own business like Peter and found peace from the chaos from the live she shared with Peter.

[DCordo74]

Positives outway the negatives. They could be Anna Maria, Debra and Silk at worst.

MJ was still a successful model/actress and club owner.

Gwen was as smart as Peter and as savvy.

Felicia was pretty much a better MJ in every respect, and was Spidey's equal in a fight, defeated Sabertooth, Lizard and Caranage. Is a grand thief and escape artist.

Lol. Have you read Gwen? She was a one-dimensional silver age girlfriend. Not a genius nor was she "savvy".

Mary Jane is not a successful model/actress. She tried, but the modelling is not something that was important to her. She's always wanted to be an actress. She's not a male fantasy. She's an independent flawed character. Why else would she be so popular?

Felicia is a completely different character than MJ. But honestly after, reading some of your other comments, it's not surprising you'd find a way to downgrade MJ using someone else.

[DCordo74]

Gwen - Most are familiar with the bland, perfect girlfriend from the Silver Age, but in her early appearances she was quite a shrew and was often nasty towards Peter.

MJ - Initially carefree and having no interest in commitment. She turned down his proposal twice and even after she and Peter married they still struggled with money, career ups and downs and the possibility of raising a family.

Felicia - I really shouldn't have to explain this one.

This pretty much...

[macattack]

Lol. Have you read Gwen? She was a one-dimensional silver age girlfriend. Not a genius nor was she "savvy".

Mary Jane is not a successful model/actress. She tried, but the modelling is not something that was important to her. She's always wanted to be an actress. She's not a male fantasy. She's an independent flawed character. Why else would she be so popular?

Felicia is a completely different character than MJ. But honestly after, reading some of your other comments, it's not surprising you'd find a way to downgrade MJ using someone else.

People keep mistaking TASM and Spectacular Spider-Man-Gwen with the Gwen in the Silver Age. That Gwen was not well-written at all. Even the Gwen in Age of Apocalypse was written better.

[Keeper of the Crows]

Positives outway the negatives. They could be Anna Maria, Debra and Silk at worst.

MJ was still a successful model/actress and club owner.

Gwen was as smart as Peter and as savvy.

Felicia was pretty much a better MJ in every respect, and was Spidey's equal in a fight, defeated Sabertooth, Lizard and Caranage. Is a grand thief and escape artist.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think his point was that Peter's love interests are fully realized characters with both positive attributes and flaws. In your former post, you said none of them have any variable flaws.

Yes, on the whole these characters' positives outweigh the negatives, but I expect Peter wouldn't be dating them in the first place if the opposite were true. The same could be said for Peter himself, and that's what makes him such a great character. I know I would prefer to date a girl who had more positives than negatives.

[Spider-Tiger]

Agreed that the question should be whether or not Peter is shallow.

Gwen - Most are familiar with the bland, perfect girlfriend from the Silver Age, but in her early appearances she was quite a shrew and was often nasty towards Peter.

MJ - Initially carefree and having no interest in commitment. She turned down his proposal twice and even after she and Peter married they still struggled with money, career ups and downs and the possibility of raising a family.

Felicia - I really shouldn't have to explain this one.

This. Although I'd argue that even Romita Gwen had her flaws (even if she wasn't particularly well-developed) like when she tried to pressure Peter into proposing to her. She also wasn't always the most understanding and could be irrational at times. Gwemma, on the other hand, really had no flaws.

[DCordo74]

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think his point was that Peter's love interests are fully realized characters with both positive attributes and flaws. In your former post, you said none of them have any variable flaws.

Yes, on the whole these characters' positives outweigh the negatives, but I expect Peter wouldn't be dating them in the first place if the opposite were true. The same could be said for Peter himself, and that's what makes him such a great character. I know I would prefer to date a girl who had more positives than negatives.

Yeah, aren't you supposed to want to date a person who has more positives than negatives? Otherwise, you would be in an unhealthy pairing.

People keep mistaking TASM and Spectacular Spider-Man-Gwen with the Gwen in the Silver Age. That Gwen was not well-written at all. Even the Gwen in Age of Apocalypse was written better.

Yep, it's a personal nitpick of mine. Spectacular Spider-man's Gwen and Ultimate Spider-man's Gwen are both interesting characters, that I like. But the original-ish Gwen, was not a good character. I remember when I read her, I was either emotionally exhausted or bored. It was not a thrilling experience. Lol.

[lone_wolf]

Isn't it the other way around too, that good-looking women are interested in him?

Yeah, there were more than a few times where he was defined as good looking and strikingly handsome. So it shouldn't be surprising that women are equally attracted to Peter. Tit for tat

--Wolfiereference.jpg

[Metamorphosis]

Yeah, there were more than a few times where he was defined as good looking and strikingly handsome. So it shouldn't be surprising that women are equally attracted to Peter. Tit for tat

--Wolfiereference.jpg

I guess that's what you could call the John Romita Sr. effect!

[Phantom Roxas]

When Liz came back to the book, Peter was dating the much hotter MJ.

And MJ being more attractive proves that Peter retained that shallowness? All you're doing is viewing Mary Jane in terms of her sex appeal. What about anything else relevant to why Peter would have been dating her at the time?

[Venomous Mask]

It's the comic book sexy effect; just about everybody in comics that's not some weird monster is impossibly beautiful. Sure, it's a bit silly when you try to create a "realistic" girl like Carlie Cooper only to make her look like a Sports Illustrated model. Not saying that cover models aren't normal, but it's still a bit ridiculous. Nevertheless, that's how comics are and probably for the most part always will be. I've always been of the mind that MJ is the one of the few self-aware women in comics, as nearly every woman of note is drop dead gorgeous, yet only MJ seems to is aware of the fact and uses it for a career.

[Frontier]

It's the comic book sexy effect; just about everybody in comics that's not some weird monster is impossibly beautiful. Sure, it's a bit silly when you try to create a "realistic" girl like Carlie Cooper only to make her look like a Sports Illustrated model. Not saying that cover models aren't normal, but it's still a bit ridiculous. Nevertheless, that's how comics are and probably for the most part always will be. I've always been of the mind that MJ is the one of the few self-aware women in comics, as nearly every woman of note is drop dead gorgeous, yet only MJ seems to is aware of the fact and uses it for a career.

Well, MJ and all of Marvels other famous models: Mille, Patsy Walker, Chili Storm...

[Confuzzled]

When Liz came back to the book, Peter was dating the much hotter MJ.

As Phantom Roxas noted, MJ had a completely different personality than Liz. MJ's "hotness" wasn't the only trait that appealed to Peter.

[Confuzzled]

Positives outway the negatives. They could be Anna Maria, Debra and Silk at worst.

MJ was still a successful model/actress and club owner.

MJ also was autonomous enough to be incredibly aware of extramarital possibilities (the kiss with her fellow actor, dancing with random hot dudes in the club in Minimum Carnage). She never crossed certain limits, but the choice not to do so was entirely hers.

Also, you may claim she is the most happiest now, but you fail to acknowledge that she is currently with another man, not with Peter! How does that work into the male fantasy aspect?