Ultimate End #1 SPOILERS

[klefmung]

This is a good theory and would clear things up. Still curious to see how 616 Spidey and Cyclops ended here though. Perhaps Ultimate End #1 takes place after future issues of Secret Wars?

I also think spoilers:

it would be reasonable to accept that maybe not everyone on the 616 raft made it, due to the damage it sustained. There was an open section that they managed to seal of with a force field of sorts, but was that reinforced with the Living Tribunal skin? Or maybe Ultimate Peter got implanted with 616 memories? He does look a little smaller, like the Ultimate version in this issue.

end of spoilers

[Hariel0079]

I'm pretty sure it was just the part with Sue and company that broke off. The Raft seemed fine after that. Regardless the characters on the Raft should be separate from everyone else or there was no point in putting them on the Raft in the first place.

Sue's part broke and the life raft with everyone else was dead center in the collison of both earths. I'm sure we'll get more details in SW#3

[Hariel0079]

Remember that 616/1610 were already merging when Doom got involved. That doesnt seenlm to be the case with any other zone. Thus he may have just took it as is and added the other 2 universes to that zone for possibly multiple reasons.

they weren't merging, they were colliding, two different things.

[Sardorim]

they weren't merging, they were colliding, two different things.

They were merging in my opinion with only one being the victor. Doom came in during that and plucked those he could. Since Peter was on the Life Raft he couldn't get him.

Thus he could have improvised by using his powers to create a facke Peter, based off what he knows of Spider-Man hence why this Spider-Man is clueless on things, to help sell the lie to the rest of 616 based characters. After all, many have strong thoughts, opinions, feelings and the such about Spider-Man. So his loss is far harder to cover up than say Eyeboy.

[Probalus]

They were merging in my opinion with only one being the victor.

Incursions happened to every other world out there, not just 616/1610. Incursion = two worlds colliding and destroying each other. What happened to 616/1610 Incursion-wise was nothing special (other than the fact that it was the last one).

What IS special is why Doom decided to merge the two worlds, if he was even responsible. The idea that Ultimate Amadeus accidentally merged the two domains as alluded to in the comic makes sense. Or could be a false memory planted by Doom as stated by others on this thread, for some other purpose.

[ian0delond]

I don't even think Doom merged the two world. Manhattan was just 1610 then Ultimate Tony Stark made popping 616 by accident.


It was what I understand from the issue. Confusing writing. This should have stopped being a question after page 3.
and why the book opened with Frank Castle ?
Why did the Thors appeared so long after the Manhattan merged ?

[vitruvian]

This book makes no sense. You get a portal from Caya that should go nowhere, even if it somehow when back in time, there should be no "universe" back then to get a Tony from.

That was proven not to be true in NA #33. You can go to the past of destroyed universes, since that is exactly what Doom and Molecule Man did.

That's assuming that the story the Tonys and Nick relate is anything like true, as opposed to a bizarre memory implant to explain the presence of multiple versions of people in the same realm.

Tony should be dead. Cyclops shouldn't be there. 616 Spider-Man shouldn't be there either. They all seem aware that they are in Doom's battleworld, yet they think they can send people back to their universes? Ok that last one makes sense, as the characters could be clueless.

They certainly don't seem to recall the Incursions at all. It could have been clearer as to whether they thought the 'other' universe was another Battleworld with its own Doom in control, or if they remember there being two Earths, even without the Incursions to explain why there's no place to go back to.

Edit: Maybe these are all replicas of 616 and UU characters? Not aware of the incursion stuff? Although that wouldn't explain why they think they can send people back to their universe, and the fact that there's only Manhattan would make them think something's wrong....Again, this book makes no sense.

Second Edit: Ok, what if Doom has them all thinking this is some "original Secret Wars" kind of deal, where 616 heroes and UU have been put in a manhattan-esque domain different than their own.

I suspect memory implants more than replicas, except possibly in the case of Cyclops and Peter.

[vitruvian]

The raft was breaking apart in issue #1 of SW.

Not the part with Cyclops and Spidey on it.

[vitruvian]

I think a lot of people are getting it wrong here. Doom clearly made Battleworld in his image. He didn't know about Cyclops and everyone else on the lift raft. These domains are creations of his, picking different parts of different worlds. This isn't THE 616 it is a version of 616.

I am guessing that the two domains have merged together or something like that. Maybe Stark created a portal which opened up to both Domains which let to both of them merging together (as seen in map supplied).

If that were the case, then the Incursions and Incursion zones with actual people from the old universes would be irrelevant, since it's all created from Doom's head, and the 'Incursion incoming' notation on the Battleworld map would be terribly misleading.

[MindofShadow]

you know its a shitty freaking comic when peoples fan theories are "memory implants" and "replicas"

[vitruvian]

There is also lots of stars in the sky, there are no stars at all in this universe.

Incorrect. Reread SW #2, the head Thor in chief says there are fewer stars in the sky, not that there are none, and we have panels with plenty of stars as well.

[vitruvian]

you know its a shitty freaking comic when peoples fan theories are "memory implants" and "replicas"

One or the other is absolutely necessary for the entire event, since everybody on Battleworld seems to believe that it's all that has ever existed and doesn't remember the original universes. If that means you regard the whole event as shitty, I don't necessarily agree with you, but it would seem to mean you needn't bother with anything Secret Wars and can save your comics money for other things till, what, September.

[Brother Cool]

I'll assume there's a college course I need to sign up for to understand what's going on.

[Dicey]

OK OK, so check out this explanation I found on Reddit.

Nobody has got this quite right yet, and for good reason. You'd have to have been reading a lot of different comics to get what's going on here.
In Spider-Men, a rift was opened between the 616 and 1610 that allowed (616) Peter Parker and Miles Morales to meet and have an adventure. Since then, this portal never actually closed entirely. In the period since Spider-Men, Tony and Amadeus Cho from the Ultimate Universe have been studying this rift. And it's in the pages of All-New X-Men, during that teams recent journey into the 1610, that we see this rift close right in front of Tony and Amadeus.
This story is based on an alternate timeline in which the portal did not close but actually exploded, merging the 616 and 1610. This is why we see a version of the scene from All-New X-Men play out in Ultimate End. And since this is set in a period just before AXIS, it's why 616 (616-A?) Tony in his normal armor and not his recent iArmor design.
In addition, this story is set on the Battleworld version of Manhattan from the start. Essentially, we're supposed to accept that there was once a 1610 and 616-flavored Battleworld: Manhattan (as this is how all the denizens of Battleworld believe the universe and planet to have always been). It was during the rift explosion that these two merged to form this current version of Battleworld: Manhattan. No incursions happened in this universe. It's simply been as it always has.
This is why Spider-Man is there. This is why Hulk and 616(A) Tony is there. And why even Scott Summers is there (sans Phoenix).

That makes the most sense to me of any reading of this book so far -- because it would mean that we're thinking about this story, and the merged Manhattans, entirely wrong. This makes it much simpler -- 616/1610 isn't a post-Incursion continuation of a merged universe. It branches off from another point entirely. It would seem to offer a simple explanation for most (or all? What do we think?) of the things that are weird about this book.

The fact that none of us put this together speaks I think to how little emphasis most of the setup for this got in the books. This is like the other worlds that are alternate continuations of events or storylines, except that the portal wasn't really a storyline, just a device for other ones, so you wouldn't immediately recognize this as that.

[Tuck]

It was what I understand from the issue. Confusing writing.

It just hasn't been explained yet is all.

This should have stopped being a question after page 3.

This is a fair complaint though. Nor sure dragging this stuff out in an event comic is the way to go.

Why did the Thors appeared so long after the Manhattan merged ?

Whatever happened with the accident with the interdimensional gateway shielded Manhattan from Doom. At least for a while.