Ultimate End #1 SPOILERS

[Plawsky]

Going back to the Thors; Ultimate Thor and Ultimate Braddock don't know that they belong with the other 1610 characters. Ultimate Thor is just one of many versions. They have been programmed to not know where they are from and they were programmed to not think twice about the fact that there are 50 Thors. Ultimate Jamie Braddock was ruling a real alongside 616 Brian Braddock and they each believed eachother to be their brother.

Actually, the "Ultimate Thor" seen in Thors IS probably from "Ultimate Manhattan" (or wherever "Ultimate" may have been before the portal incident in Ultimate End). The new Thor at the beginning of Secret Wars #2 was originally from Higher Avalon, so there's no reason to think that each Thor doesn't come from a different region on the map, including Ultimate Manhattan.

[Spider-Man24]

Why are there two ultimate wolverines on the second page spread?

[wyokid]

But this has been marketed as a swan song for Ultimate Marvel, it shouldn't put heavy emphasis on the 616 characters but the Ultimate Marvel characters.

And it is. Peter's identity being revealed is a direct result of the Ultimate Universe and the Marvel Universe being merged. I'd say that's important.

Whatever. I guess perhaps I am being extra critical. I just hate Bendis' goofy writing style. I'll refrain from bashing it any further.

Nah man, you're all good. I agree that, while I enjoyed it, it should have been better, but I just thought those were important things happening.

[jackolover]

Because the Spider-Men story and the other ones with the rift between the universes happened well before the time jump in Time Runs Out, so at least eight months before the final Incursion. That's why.

I just wanted to get the information, not questioning you. The information overload I'm experiencing over all these issues this week is making me dizzy.

[jackolover]

Nope, the dialog references different dimensions. Realms on Battleworld are simply different physical locations in the same dimension. Therefore, they do not believe they just merged two Battleworld realms.

Why did the Thors show up if no infringement to Dooms Law occurred?

[jackolover]

True. However, we've been getting hints for a while now that something was going on with the Incursion zones, where they were disappearing milliseconds later than the rest of their universes, and then previous Incursion sites on Earth-616 started to get domes over them... so hints that the construction of Battleworld is supposed to involve the actual preservation of these sites and the people in them, at least to the extent that teleportation or matter transmission to another universe is preservation, not their recreation from one person's memories or anything like that.

I am really waiting for the Great Society Incursion point over Egypt, to be recreated on Battleworld.

[Balfro]

Actually, the "Ultimate Thor" seen in Thors IS probably from "Ultimate Manhattan" (or wherever "Ultimate" may have been before the portal incident in Ultimate End). The new Thor at the beginning of Secret Wars #2 was originally from Higher Avalon, so there's no reason to think that each Thor doesn't come from a different region on the map, including Ultimate Manhattan.

Ok that could be, but then what about Jamie Braddock? Was he just hanging out outside of the 1610 area?

[Drakeon]

Not recreations, they're the characters themselves.

Spider-Gwen proves this beyond any doubt.

She has her memories, they're just being suppressed by Doom just like everyone else.

Spider-Gwen proves nothing. All the spiders spider sense is telling them.something is wrong. Everyone on Battleworld has been mindwiped.

But Doom wouldnt just recreate Spiderman, Cyclops and Tony Stark. So it cant be the survivors of the incursion.

What it could be is 616/1610 saved from an earlier point in thier timeline making them real and explaining it somewhat.

[Drakeon]

No. Different versions would have different numbers. A few, those who were on the life raft, may be recreations, but the remainder are either the actual 616 and 1610 characters saved in their Incursion zones with their memories altered, or the map is all wrong.

Then perhaps they are from an earlier point in time and not technically incursion survivors.

If not then there are too many errors and Marvel labled the area wrong.

[Balfro]

I have a funny feeling that this issue was supposed to originally be from Spider-Men 2 and instead of getting Bagley to redraw everything they just used the artwork he had done already and just worked it into the story... Because there's about a hundred ways this story could have been told that's less confusing and contradictory.

If the characters truly believe they are tapping into an alternate reality with the portal, yet know about Doom, then they should know that there is only one reality and not even believe in alternate universes.

It would also explain why 616 Tony is in his old Armor, becuase this was drawn a while ago.

We've seen this in Age of Ultron before. The artwork was started well before Otto took over Peters mind and it was clearly regular Peter drawn into the core series... And they shoehorned in a mini series with Otto's inner dialogue to orient the reader.

EDIT:

It makes more sense as Spider-Men 2 because it's a direct story leading out of the first one; Where they are exploring the portal from Spider-Men and then it explodes causing a crossover on a larger scale, involving the Ultimates and Avengers... And actually, unless my memory is deceiving me, didn't Bendis say way back that Spider-Men 2 would involve the Avengers and Ultimates?

So there ya go. Unless stated otherwise this is my working theory; that Marvel kind of took the easy way out and recycled artwork and story that was otherwise going to be tossed in the trash, rather than starting fresh.

[Username taken]

I just read this and I can not make head nor tail of the book.

It literally doesn't fit in to the larger Secret Wars story.

When, where and how is this story taking place??

[Webhead]

So there ya go. Unless stated otherwise this is my working theory; that Marvel kind of took the easy way out and recycled artwork and story that was otherwise going to be tossed in the trash, rather than starting fresh.

Wouldn't explain Doc Green or the new Cyclops costume last since they're far more recent than the Spider-Men 2 announcement. And Pichelli was hired to draw that as of the last update, anyway.

I'm leaning towards the idea that Spider-Men 2 will happen in the post SW universe.

[Balfro]

Wouldn't explain Doc Green or the new Cyclops costume last since they're far more recent than the Spider-Men 2 announcement. And Pichelli was hired to draw that as of the last update, anyway.

I'm leaning towards the idea that Spider-Men 2 will happen in the post SW universe.

Ah gotcha. Good call.

[Danskeroc]

BENDISSSSS YOU HAVE SOME 'SPLAINING TO DO
TOO MANY CHARACTERS OUT OF PLACE WHO LOOK THE SAME AS A FEW
THAT'S COOL, I KNOW EDITORIAL TRYINA BAMBOOZLE YOU
SPENDING MILLIONS ON TIE-INS TRYING TO CONFUSE YOU
HAD TO TALK TO MYSELF, DANSKEROC, YOU'RE USED TO IT
ITS POLITICS AS USUAL.

If anyone immediately caught that this is a Jay-Z Tidal Freestyle reference, please quote me and gimme a high-5.

[wyokid]

I have a funny feeling that this issue was supposed to originally be from Spider-Men 2 and instead of getting Bagley to redraw everything they just used the artwork he had done already and just worked it into the story... Because there's about a hundred ways this story could have been told that's less confusing and contradictory.

If the characters truly believe they are tapping into an alternate reality with the portal, yet know about Doom, then they should know that there is only one reality and not even believe in alternate universes.

It would also explain why 616 Tony is in his old Armor, becuase this was drawn a while ago.

We've seen this in Age of Ultron before. The artwork was started well before Otto took over Peters mind and it was clearly regular Peter drawn into the core series... And they shoehorned in a mini series with Otto's inner dialogue to orient the reader.

EDIT:

It makes more sense as Spider-Men 2 because it's a direct story leading out of the first one; Where they are exploring the portal from Spider-Men and then it explodes causing a crossover on a larger scale, involving the Ultimates and Avengers... And actually, unless my memory is deceiving me, didn't Bendis say way back that Spider-Men 2 would involve the Avengers and Ultimates?

So there ya go. Unless stated otherwise this is my working theory; that Marvel kind of took the easy way out and recycled artwork and story that was otherwise going to be tossed in the trash, rather than starting fresh.

I thought the portal got destroyed in All-New X-Men though