Ultimate End #1 SPOILERS

[Samuel M]

Yep, im out.

In fact, this is making me not want to try anyting but the core titles of SW because if it is going to be this unorganized and confusing, I will just stick with the story Hickman is telling and ignore everything else.

Master of Kung Fu was so easy to get into. If you don't really know characters it could be some what of a problem.It gives you a good history of this zone as well.

As for this issue I thought it was bad on my first read. But after reading some posts here and reading it again it is making a bit more sense but not enough. On top of that I figured Bendis would not be Bendis for the last issues of the UU buy I was wrong. I think there should have been a 'who's who' at the start and more information on what really happened and how this zone is around. Clearly Doom knows it's here and something is not right because he sent Thor. As is right now it felt like a huge mess and really confusing. I'm not a big Bagley that art was ok bit it felt rushed in many places. the last page was great

[MB99]

The raft was breaking apart in issue #1 of SW.

I'm pretty sure it was just the part with Sue and company that broke off. The Raft seemed fine after that. Regardless the characters on the Raft should be separate from everyone else or there was no point in putting them on the Raft in the first place.

[randomengine]

This issue was a complete mess. Nothing made any sense.

[robreedwrites]

Yep, im out.

In fact, this is making me not want to try anyting but the core titles of SW because if it is going to be this unorganized and confusing, I will just stick with the story Hickman is telling and ignore everything else.

The other tie-ins I've tried (Master of Kung Fu, A-Force, and Battleworld) all made sense and were enjoyable. It's just this one that lost me. Hopefully the rest of the series are like the first three. And hopefully this turns around. I'll wait for the reviews on the second issue before I consider continuing though.

[randomengine]

Yep, im out.

In fact, this is making me not want to try anyting but the core titles of SW because if it is going to be this unorganized and confusing, I will just stick with the story Hickman is telling and ignore everything else.

I too am dropping this. After that first issue, *ooof*, I cannot imagine anything that would renew my interest in this series. That's pretty bad. Planet Hulk and A-Force were really good and I enjoyed them. Those are two good tie-ins that comport with Hickman's Secret Wars main series.

[Drz]

Since this was such a terrible issue and doesn't even treat itself as a swan song to Ultimate Marvel, i have a positive feeling we haven't seen the last of Ultimate Marvel. Or Bendis is a mean person.

[Webhead]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I didn't find it senseless. These are "reborn" 616/1610 guys, which explains why they don't remember anything from the Incursions and might be an in-story way to address why their SQs don't line up (Pretty sure Bendis just wanted regular 616 Tony to fit the character interplay he planned, though ); there are no alternate universes left, yeah, but couldn't there be pocket "dimensions"/planes of existence within the Battleworld domains that weren't accesible by regular means? After all, the extradimensional realms of demons and stuff like that was still considered part of their respective universes, not alternate realities altogether, so it's coincevable that Doom rebuilt some manner of dimensional structures.

There are a number of problems with the issue otherwise, though, namely the fact that it could've been just a #0 issue considering how nothing beyond the initial situation was established, and even that was sort of addressed too quickly. I suppose it will have to be uncovered as SW goes on so as not to spoil things that are crucial to the main book.

[stillanerd]

Yeah, this is one of those comics in which even you've read the first two issues of Secret Wars, it's still confusing. Nevertheless, I think I have an understanding what might be going on:

1. As others have pointed out, these are recreated versions of the 616/1610 heroes and villains, which is why they no memories of the Incursions or there were any other universes other than this one. It's also why both 616 and 1610 heroes and villains have memories of Battleworld, Doom being God, the Thors being cops, etc. Remember, anyone who wasn't on the Life Raft in Secret Wars #1 is dead along with their universe, and Doom, in order to save the multiverse, supposedly cobbled together the destroyed remnants of those universes and their respective timelines into a single universe and world. To use a computer analogy, Doom did a hard reboot of what was left on the hard drive based off of its last system restore point. Then copied those bits of that salvaged data from multiple hard drives and downloaded them into a whole new hard drive. That's why we not only have a 616 Tony Stark who still alive, but one who isn't Inverted, and why we have another 616 Spider-Man and Cyclops, even though the actual 616 versions of Spidey and Cyclops were teleported onto the Life Raft.

2. I think the real explanation behind the malfunction of the trans-dimensional portal can be explained as either one of two things:

a. That there were originally two separate kingdoms on Battleworld, one based off of the 616, and the other based off of 1610. And when the 1610 Amadeus Cho activated it, it resulted in the merging of those kingdoms together. Remember, one the rules governing Battleworld is, unless you have direct permission from your kingdom's baron, you are not permitted to travel into the other kingdoms. And there's an obvious reason why--you'll more than likely run into an alternate version of yourself, which will lead you to ask all sorts of questions you probably shouldn't be asking. It's no wonder then why the Thors showed up in the end as they did because the accidental merging of two kingdoms would be a serious violation.

b. However, there's also the possibility--one which I think is far more probable--is that the "accidental merging of the 616 and 1610" as the heroes remember it is a false memory. After all, if the entire population on Battleworld believes their world and universe is all that has ever existed and has ever existed for centuries, even though it makes no logical sense, then it also stands to reason they can have false memories about how their "universes" merged and can still believe there are parallel universes even though they no longer exist. It also provides an "explanation" for the residents of the Kingdom of Manhattan for why there can be multiple versions of people and places in the same place without them having to question what really happened. Also, this fits into the idea that, contrary to what people believe, Battleworld is actually a whole lot younger than people realize.

3. Notice who is notably absent from all this? Miles Morales. Five will get you twenty that he is the only person from the 1610 who knows remember the real 1610 and thus knows the truth about what's really going on, and that he will be the one to tell the heroes what has happened--which some are really, really not going to take very well.

[Frontier]

I know Bendis isn't the best to sticking with the continuity of other writers or overall continuity and generally prefers just writing what he wants to write...this was just really confusing from a plot perspective.

Spidey should be on the Raft and not in the hodgepodge of 616/1610, but here he is so presumably he's a replica made by Doom. But that means there are now two 616!Peter's that will be on Battleworld. The fact that he mentioned having a family also makes him sound like Renew Your Vows Pete, but he's in a whole other domain and probably just me making too much of that one line.

And if that's the same for Tony, who's now in his Heroic Age Bleeding Edge Armor, does that mean there's a replica of 616!Steve hanging around? And Thor? Did he not bother making one of Reed because...well, it's Reed? What about T'Challa?

It's odd that Tony is in an older Armor while Cyclops is still in his current costume (and he should be on the Raft too). Was Doom just not consistent in terms of costume designs with the replicas? Did he just prefer those looks for those characters? Did he also realize Emma looked better in white and in her old costume?

Do the mechanics of Battleworld mean that the the Manhattan's of 616 and 1610 just fused, so anyone in those areas were moved along with it, and that the only change was that the inhabitants who were there during the Incursion now think that Doom is their God and master? It seems like they were all well aware of what was going on with Battleworld and that things were different, and had been interacting with each other for some time.

Y'know, seeing 616 and 1610 interact was cool and all, but I was expecting to have something a lot more meaningful come out of this issue and less exposition. I was also expecting more focus on the Ultimate side, and dealing with their situation and the emotional turmoil that follows. So far this doesn't really feel like the good sendoff for the UU that I was hoping it would be.

But Bagley's art was stellar, as to be expected. All the characters looked good, and seeing the Serpent Squad was a delight, and the action scenes were fun to read. Just wish the script was more up to par .

[Sardorim]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I didn't find it senseless. These are "reborn" 616/1610 guys, which explains why they don't remember anything from the Incursions and might be an in-story way to address why their SQs don't line up (Pretty sure Bendis just wanted regular 616 Tony to fit the character interplay he planned, though ); there are no alternate universes left, yeah, but couldn't there be pocket "dimensions"/planes of existence within the Battleworld domains that weren't accesible by regular means? After all, the extradimensional realms of demons and stuff like that was still considered part of their respective universes, not alternate realities altogether, so it's coincevable that Doom rebuilt some manner of dimensional structures.

There are a number of problems with the issue otherwise, though, namely the fact that it could've been just a #0 issue considering how nothing beyond the initial situation was established, and even that was sort of addressed too quickly. I suppose it will have to be uncovered as SW goes on so as not to spoil things that are crucial to the main book.

They aren't reborn as they weren't erased but were instead saved from erasure by Doom and molded to fit Battleworld. The actual erased universes are the many Doom didn't save anyone from hence why they arent on Battleworld.

If Doom wasn't setting out to save as much as he could than he would have just created his own universe and not bothered trying to save anything but would just create instead. Far less trouble. That and we all know Doom did set out to save all he could from erasure. So these aren't AU versions of 616 based characters, they're the real deal.

Only ones that could be fakes would be those on the Life Raft yet are in thr zone as well unless the life raft survivors fail, are brainwashed and than thrown in with the rest of the survivors by Doom.

[klefmung]

My theory, spoiler-tagged for those who haven't read other Secret Wars stuff, or the lead up:

spoilers:

So, Doom clearly at the very least mind wiped every single survivor that wasn't on a life raft. If you make sense, implanting memories to make it seem like that world's infrastructure had already been in place would do a lot toward preventing conflict and cementing Doom's rule as he created Battleworld. Evidence that no time had passed and the memories were implanted exists in SW 2 when the Cabal got off the life raft and acted like the incursion just happened. Now, as this pertains to this domain: This domain is the only one to contain alternate versions of the same survivors from the same places, but from different universes. I think that Doom may have implanted fake memories of how this happened, just as he implanted fake memories of Battleworld's longevity and a creation story in the Thor corps.

end of spoilers

[hobo]

I don't know if he ignored continuity. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying I really have no idea what's going on this story, lol.

[Sardorim]

Remember that 616/1610 were already merging when Doom got involved. That doesnt seenlm to be the case with any other zone. Thus he may have just took it as is and added the other 2 universes to that zone for possibly multiple reasons.

[ian0delond]

Read it a few hours ago. I am still confused and nothing happened.

Feels like Bendis did not even attend the Secret Wars editorial meetings. Or he just said "no lol".
Master of Kung Fu, Planet Hulk, A Force, none ot them had those problems and were at least enjoyable.

I don't understand why marvel let him writting so many major books.

[robreedwrites]

My theory, spoiler-tagged for those who haven't read other Secret Wars stuff, or the lead up:

spoilers:

So, Doom clearly at the very least mind wiped every single survivor that wasn't on a life raft. If you make sense, implanting memories to make it seem like that world's infrastructure had already been in place would do a lot toward preventing conflict and cementing Doom's rule as he created Battleworld. Evidence that no time had passed and the memories were implanted exists in SW 2 when the Cabal got off the life raft and acted like the incursion just happened. Now, as this pertains to this domain: This domain is the only one to contain alternate versions of the same survivors from the same places, but from different universes. I think that Doom may have implanted fake memories of how this happened, just as he implanted fake memories of Battleworld's longevity and a creation story in the Thor corps.

end of spoilers

This is a good theory and would clear things up. Still curious to see how 616 Spidey and Cyclops ended here though. Perhaps Ultimate End #1 takes place after future issues of Secret Wars?