Ultimate End #1 SPOILERS

[jackolover]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I didn't find it senseless. These are "reborn" 616/1610 guys, which explains why they don't remember anything from the Incursions and might be an in-story way to address why their SQs don't line up (Pretty sure Bendis just wanted regular 616 Tony to fit the character interplay he planned, though ); there are no alternate universes left, yeah, but couldn't there be pocket "dimensions"/planes of existence within the Battleworld domains that weren't accesible by regular means? After all, the extradimensional realms of demons and stuff like that was still considered part of their respective universes, not alternate realities altogether, so it's coincevable that Doom rebuilt some manner of dimensional structures.

There are a number of problems with the issue otherwise, though, namely the fact that it could've been just a #0 issue considering how nothing beyond the initial situation was established, and even that was sort of addressed too quickly. I suppose it will have to be uncovered as SW goes on so as not to spoil things that are crucial to the main book.

Now that Secret Wars#2 establishes a "restating story from nothing" style, Ultimate End fits that formula comfortably. We had no idea what was going on in SW2, so why is UE such a surprise to some people? I like the dialogue is instructing the reader as to the situation the amalgums Manhattan is in. What I don't know is why they are fixated on the Tear. Are they disgruntled that the two worlds are mixed together, or, did they think the Tear should shunt one team back somewhere else? They don't remmember 616 or 1610 anymore, because Spidey is comfortable in the amalgum. I wonder what they expect to happen next? Looking at that dialogue between Stark and Cho, they don't mention things like616 or 1610. They just woke up one day after the Incursion, and remembered the Tear event and put 2 and 2 together, thinking the White out explosion was going to be noticed by Doom. The Avengers just had a meeting because they were also concerned Doom was coming here because of the tear burst. I think all of them existed in amalgum Manhattan all the time.

[Wolverine12]

So I've read all issues of the UU, I've read Spider-Men and All New X-Men and this issue still was hard to follow. It would seem that we are rewriting some recent history about the portal to 616 closing in All New X-Men. I am curious about how Spidey and Cyke are there but I'm sure that will get explained. Bendis loves exposition so I'm curious why it wasn't used better here. What really has me scratching my head is why everyone is blaming UU Tony for this happening. 616 Tony knows about the incursions so he can't feign ignorance. If he is part of the new "Doom" world and only has the memories Doom allows him to have then why would he even be questioning UU Tony, same goes for everyone else involved.

Bendis' track record as of late has been pretty disappointing to me anyway so I really shouldn't be surprised at this but I guess I just had hoped for more from my favorite Marvel U.

On the plus side Bagley is doing great work here. So much better than Cataclysm.

[jackolover]

they weren't merging, they were colliding, two different things.

Yeah, I don't know fully how the mechanics of what happens at an Incursion area as it explodes. Doom saves something, but as to what people get implanted in that something, I have no idea, as yet. Does he preserve both areas from destruction, or, create echos of who inhabited those zones on the Battleworld sector?

[Sardorim]

OK OK, so check out this explanation I found on Reddit.



That makes the most sense to me of any reading of this book so far -- because it would mean that we're thinking about this story, and the merged Manhattans, entirely wrong. This makes it much simpler -- 616/1610 isn't a post-Incursion continuation of a merged universe. It branches off from another point entirely. It would seem to offer a simple explanation for most (or all? What do we think?) of the things that are weird about this book.

The fact that none of us put this together speaks I think to how little emphasis most of the setup for this got in the books. This is like the other worlds that are alternate continuations of events or storylines, except that the portal wasn't really a storyline, just a device for other ones, so you wouldn't immediately recognize this as that.

I don't support that theory at all.

616 based characters in the zone are that - 616 based characters not AUs of 616.

Marvel specifically listed then as the 616 and 1610 universes we know and love. They aren't being sold off as another AU.

[Crimz]

Doom seems to be the only one who doesn't have duplicates on Battleworld. Good pick up.

Doom, Reed (besides Ultimate for obvious reasons) and maybe Sue? They are the only ones who don't seem to have different versions around.

[shgs]

My theory, which seems the least convoluted to my mind, is that because for some reason yet to be explained Doom (accidentally?) merged two Manhattans into a single domain he had to create a memory to justify this, otherwise the heroes would obviously realise something suspicious was unfolding when they bumped into each other. He has created this memory using an actual event from the recent past (the Spider-Men portal flaring up then closing) so that it is easier to accept. The life-raft characters and non-inverted Tony I am sure we will get an explanation for (there's a huge difference between starting in media res and a continuity error folks). I know this has all been basically said already, but I thought I'd try explaining it in simpler terms for people who are still confused.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, when the portal flared up and closed in All-New X-Men 31 is was at the same moment that a new mutant manifested the power to create interdimensional portals, and her energy signature makes the same shape as the portal makes both in All-New X-Men 31 and here just before it closes.

portal.jpg

It would be cool if she had a part to play.

[shgs]

Doom, Reed (besides Ultimate for obvious reasons) and maybe Sue? They are the only ones who don't seem to have different versions around.

And America Chavez of course.

[Crimz]

America goes without saying, this is about those who should have counterparts running around. It would be weird if she did have AU versions.

[vitruvian]

OK OK, so check out this explanation I found on Reddit.



That makes the most sense to me of any reading of this book so far -- because it would mean that we're thinking about this story, and the merged Manhattans, entirely wrong. This makes it much simpler -- 616/1610 isn't a post-Incursion continuation of a merged universe. It branches off from another point entirely. It would seem to offer a simple explanation for most (or all? What do we think?) of the things that are weird about this book.

The fact that none of us put this together speaks I think to how little emphasis most of the setup for this got in the books. This is like the other worlds that are alternate continuations of events or storylines, except that the portal wasn't really a storyline, just a device for other ones, so you wouldn't immediately recognize this as that.

There's a major problem with that explanation, however... the different zones of the Battleworld do not exist in different universes. You can walk or fly from one to the other if you are willing to risk Doom's wrath for doing so without permission. Therefore, the whole rift/merger thing does not make any sense as happening between two zones of Battleworld.

[vitruvian]

Ultimate Nick Fury knows Doom is God of Battleworld already, so we shouldn't assume the Ultimates still remember the Ultimate Universe. All both teams remember is a tear, and now both teams appear to be in the same room. They still know Doom could get worried by that, so to me, Battleworld laws are in place, and we are just in the negotiation process of stabilising a mixed team Manhattan. The Stark we see from 616 May not be Superior Tony, because another Tony may have been swapped from another Universe. It's why 616 Spiderman is not shocked to see a Triskalion in the East River, as he swings in over the city. We can't think these people remember anything from before the Incursion. It just means the Incursion happened while Ultimate Tony and Cho had the Tear open, so it was a coincidence. But after the Incursion, Manhattan was transformed like every sector of Battleworld, only they appeared the most recent sector.

The Incursion happened at a later point, and the map in SW #2 says these are 616 and 1610, not parallels to them, so it must be false memories rather than what really happened.

[jimishim12]

Once again Peter is written like a self important retard who thinks he's the only person in his meta human community with a greater measure of responsibility and stability. I've got people to protect? Did he seriously say that in front of Scott, Emma and Hawkeye, he knows he's not jackshit in the grand scheme of things but is still acting like he's got more to lose than any superhero of his reputation if exposed in the public. God bendis.

[sifighter]

I don't know why people are pointing to continuity issues. The whole of Battleworld ignores continuity, not just Bendis. Just because we don't know why Parker from 616 is in this and Pre-inversion Tony, doesn't mean anything. People who were dead are in this, so whatever the rules are of Battleworld, it ignores all continuity anyway.

You know what you got a point, and as I've come to realize we have to wait and see what Bendis has planned. I honestly hope that this mini-series will be a lot of fun and hopefully is a good send off to the Ultimate Universe.

[Plawsky]

Doom seems to be the only one who doesn't have duplicates on Battleworld.

Most of the alt-Dooms were killed by the Council of Reeds, anyway. I think that's why, in Hickman's Avengers story, 616-Doom is THE Doom, the one who becomes Rabum Alal. It's made a little wonky when you bring up the fact that Ultimate Doom was showing up right until the final Incursion, but that's Bendis for you.

[Balfro]

The part that REALLY doesn't make sense... Why was 616 Tony walking around Mysterio's lair shirtless?!?

[SpeedofLife]

I don't quite understand what people are having difficulty with. These aren't the original 616 and 1610 characters. Unless they were on the rafts, they died. This was made quite explicit. Everything and everyone on Battleworld is a construct of whoever created it (might be Doom, might be not).

This also explains where Ultimate Doom is - he probably wasn't recreated at all, seeing as his existence would threaten God-Doom's rule.