Ultimate End #1 SPOILERS

[Nyadnar17]

I don't know why people are pointing to continuity issues. The whole of Battleworld ignores continuity, not just Bendis. Just because we don't know why Parker from 616 is in this and Pre-inversion Tony, doesn't mean anything. People who were dead are in this, so whatever the rules are of Battleworld, it ignores all continuity anyway.

Fear. Its fear plain and simple. This is the final story of the Ultimate Universe and people are afraid Bendis is going to screw it up. All of the other Battleword books are so strange and different there is no confusion that you are reading about alternate universe characters. All of the other Battleworld books either have intro-pages explaining what the deal is or have point of view characters that are just as confused as the reader. This book is different. It relies on the reader trusting the writer to explain what is going on....quite frankly most people don't trust Bendis that much. Especially when it comes to continuity and playing nicely with other.

[Viteh]

That was proven not to be true in NA #33. You can go to the past of destroyed universes, since that is exactly what Doom and Molecule Man did.

Maybe? I'm not too sure. Doom's trip seemed to be some sort of constant. But yeah, technically he would have to go back to a universe before an incursion to cause the incursions. Although Reed's explanation back in NA 2 seemed to hint the opposite. Either he's wrong, or Doom's an exception.

Edit: What I really don't understand is what these characters think happened to the rest of the world besides Manhattan.

[klefmung]

Most of the alt-Dooms were killed by the Council of Reeds, anyway. I think that's why, in Hickman's Avengers story, 616-Doom is THE Doom, the one who becomes Rabum Alal. It's made a little wonky when you bring up the fact that Ultimate Doom was showing up right until the final Incursion, but that's Bendis for you.

Ultimate Doom never meeting the council of Reeds makes perfect sense, because Ultimate Reed never made a bridge or joined.

[Plawsky]

I don't quite understand what people are having difficulty with. These aren't the original 616 and 1610 characters. Unless they were on the rafts, they died. This was made quite explicit. Everything and everyone on Battleworld is a construct of whoever created it (might be Doom, might be not).

This also explains where Ultimate Doom is - he probably wasn't recreated at all, seeing as his existence would threaten God-Doom's rule.

The problem people are having is that they are calling it "1610 Manhattan" and "616 Manhattan." It's very likely - probable, I'd even say - that these are close recreations of the characters from those universes. But it's quite understandable that people are confused, because they seem to imply that these characters came straight from those original universes.

I'm sure all will be revealed in time, but there could have been a better explanation in the introduction. Well, really, "sure" is probably not the best word; "hoping, but not expecting" is probably more accurate.

Ultimate Doom never meeting the council of Reeds makes perfect sense, because Ultimate Reed never made a bridge or joined.

Yeah, but it still goes against the idea that 616-Doom is the last Doom. I would've loved Hickman to write an exchange between the two.

Also, my head-canon before Fialkov came along was that Ultimate Reed met the Council of Reeds (they would've been the people to blow up his house in Ultimate Enemy), which is where he would've adopted his emotionless psychopath, science-above-all mentality, but then left them because he felt superior.

[Scott Taylor]

Not completely sure which Peter this is, but its not 616. Its probably the RYV Peter that we keep hearing about. He mentioned his family, which has to be more than just Aunt May.

This was a fun issue. My favorite thing coming out of Secret Wars so far.

[RLAAMJR.]

Is that 616 Storm?

[ultimate_spider]

Why did he waste so many pages with dumb stuff like Jessica telling Peter about her clone-ness, and Peter being uncomfortable about his identity being known? Isn't this an event book? Shouldn't it be like, eventful? Bendis, you're not effing funny. Stop. I think it's because he lives in Portland that he thinks he's hip and witty. His work is just awful now.

[Samuel M]

Not really adding much but like Plawsky said about all at Dooms is correct. Also in one of the last Avengers or New Avengers issues it was stated that Doom had on a hand full of versions left. There were also images of them shown

[wyokid]

Why did he waste so many pages with dumb stuff like Jessica telling Peter about her clone-ness, and Peter being uncomfortable about his identity being known? Isn't this an event book? Shouldn't it be like, eventful? Bendis, you're not effing funny. Stop. I think it's because he lives in Portland that he thinks he's hip and witty. His work is just awful now.

Yes, because new readers are definitely going to know all of this backstory already. I get that the book is a confusing mess, but you're REALLY reaching for complaints. Especially considering that now all of Battleworld is bound to know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. That's a pretty important thing.

[Drz]

But this has been marketed as a swan song for Ultimate Marvel, it shouldn't put heavy emphasis on the 616 characters but the Ultimate Marvel characters.

[Drakeon]

Is that 616 Storm?

Most likely not. While not confirmed either way she died in SW #1. These all seem to be recreations. Otherwise it makes no sense to have Cyclops and Spiderman there. Hopefully its explained soon.

Personally I think they used 616/1610 to label it but its just a version of 616/1610.

[Balfro]

I don't think any of these Ultimate characters are the real versions, or at least not real in the sense that they are reimagined. And they aren't contained to just the Manhattan area, as seen by Ultimate Thor in "Thors" and Ultimate James Braddock in "Secret Wars #2".

Every inhabitant of Battleworld never knew a Planet Earth, let alone that each realm came from alternate versions of it. All they know is Battleworld. It's all they've ever known. Even if Battleworld only technically existed for a few weeks, it's inhabitants believe it to have always existed. They think they were born there. They have memories of growing up there. All created by Doom.

When the 1610 and 616 characters met at the Triskelion they were discussing the portal that linked their two realms. The story we originally saw in Spider-Men and All-New X-Men was that they found a portal that linked both UNIVERSES together. But in Battleworld there is no such thing as alternate universes anymore, so the portal simply links their two realms; something that is prohibited and enforced by the Thor Corps.

Going back to the Thors; Ultimate Thor and Ultimate Braddock don't know that they belong with the other 1610 characters. Ultimate Thor is just one of many versions. They have been programmed to not know where they are from and they were programmed to not think twice about the fact that there are 50 Thors. Ultimate Jamie Braddock was ruling a real alongside 616 Brian Braddock and they each believed eachother to be their brother.

Ultimate End might not be as the title suggests; that it's the end of the Ultimate Universe. We've already seen the end of the UU in Secret Wars #1. No, Ultimate End might actually be the story of how Battleworld can come unravelled, leading to IT'S Ultimate End.

[Samuel M]

But this has been marketed as a swan song for Ultimate Marvel, it shouldn't put heavy emphasis on the 616 characters but the Ultimate Marvel characters.

You beat me too it. But your right, this was the real reason I came to this book. We were promised answers and it was marketed as the end of the UU. I know I shouldn't be upset at this point but as someone who dropped the UU because of things like this I thought I was going to get what I was promised. As a first issue I'm sure everything could be answered in issues to come but I can't put my trust in that when the other Battle world books(that I read) were pretty good. Overall I enjoyed the ride that was UU it brought me into comics but I guess it really did die with the start of Secret Wars #1.

[Teste]

Most likely not. While not confirmed either way she died in SW #1. These all seem to be recreations. Otherwise it makes no sense to have Cyclops and Spiderman there. Hopefully its explained soon.

Personally I think they used 616/1610 to label it but its just a version of 616/1610.

It's 616/1610. If it were an alternate universe of 616, it would not be 616.

It can't get simpler than that. Oh wait, it can! It has been officially called the end of the Ultimate, 1610, universe. If it's not 1610, then it's not the end of 1610, thus...

I agree, this comic didn't make any sense. People, it's Bendis, was anyone really surprised? I'm sure the only reason why Cyclops was in his current uniform is because it's Bendis writting Uncanny X-Men. Don't let Bendis writting fool you into mixing up everything Secret Wars is about: as the universes were being destroyed, Doom salvaged what he could of each and put everything together into Battleworld. If Doom were trying to create an utopia from nothing, it would be very different from Battleworld, and more similar to the other times in which he has done basically that same thing.

[Charles Knight]

Regardless of how it's labelled the story itself is pretty straight forward - these are the versions of characters who exist within battleworld - so all the merging of stuff is the merging of two seperate realms in the battleworld universe not the pre-battleworld universes - which is why Doom being God and the Thor corps coming to get them makes perfect sense to them. Nobody in this book think they have lived anywhere else but battleworld.

Which is a crummy send-off for anyone thinking this is actually about the Ultimate Universe but there you o...