X-23 Appreciation Post: My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel

[XCE]

Seth Mann:


Eric "EBAS" Basaldua:


Elias Chatzoudis:

[XCE]

Okay, that's it, I promise. Hopefully you like the art enough to not consider it spamming. Also, don't take the depiction of X-23 by some of the pinup artists too seriously. :)

[Galerion]

Okay, that's it, I promise. Hopefully you like the art enough to not consider it spamming. Also, don't take the depiction of X-23 by some of the pinup artists too seriously.

No, X. You cool.

[Moondoggie]

There are some killer artists out there drawing her i need to get myself to some US cons to get some commissions done it seems to be the place for it

[sungila]

That's a bit over the top. I'm stating the obvious here, but she's a fictional character. There's not a real person being abused here, she's just another comic book superhero fighting comic book villains. And you're giving Bendis way too much credit. I could argue that he's abused the character as much as any writer. How? By turning her into a sexy plot device. What's the first thing he did with X-23 after she joined ANXM? Put her on the cover kissing Cyclops, intentionally making her the punchline of an internet full of Wolverine/Cyclops sex jokes. Her panel time after that was almost exclusively used to build up a potential relationship with Cyclops, and when he left the book, she decided to run away because there was nothing holding her there anymore. Angel tried to stop her and sure enough, the next day she's driving off on his bike for a wild night together, complete with another kissing cover and preview pages hinting at a sex scene to drum up controversy and sales of his book. Bendis has reduced her to a character whose motivations are suddenly exclusively revolving around male characters and after a full year still hasn't passed the Bechdel test. All to serve him and his soap opera.

You mention that you hate seeing Laura going through cycles and after experiencing growth being reverted back to start all over again. I would guess that there's a pretty good reason for this. Her past and her struggle to overcome it is probably the thing that makes her an interesting character. Let's hypothetically say one writer progresses her to the point that she's a normal, well-adjusted person. Well, that's kind of boring. What's the next writer going to do? Write about her baking cookies and going on dates? Again, these are superhero comics, so no. They are going to create conflicts and explore what makes the character interesting.

I'm also a little confused about your stated wish of seeing her "not being abusive or abused", are you talking about emotionally? Because let's face facts; she's a melee fighter whose weapons are claws and a healing factor. When she gets into a fight she is always going to inflict and/or receive physical damage.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you love the character and want the best for her. I dare say every fan in this thread does. But keep in mind that it's the journey that's interesting, not the destination. Have you seen "The Truman Show"? I'm reminded of the ending of that movie. Like the TV audience, we're all rooting and cheering for Laura. But if she were to completely overcome her struggles and no longer have any kind of pain or trouble in her life, all that would be left is going "so what else is on?"

Thank you XCE for responding to my post and for not being at all dismissive in presenting your point of view. I really want to honor the positive spirit of your follow-up post by not dragging our different perspectives into negativity.
I already made my 'over the top' arguments of what I take as Bendis' attempts to further Laura's story by bringing valuable intimacy and compassion into her life. (Yes, fictional life). I respect that you don't agree.

I never made any suggestion that I thought Laura should be normal, baking cookies and just suddenly okay. Laura is a cutter. That's serious stuff; that doesn't go away. Recovery isn't a destination...it's a journey. So I do appreciate seeing her struggle with 'babysitting' and 'teenage love' and being with people who aren't asking anything of her, who just want to know her. To me, that's genuine struggle...it's difficult stuff...far easier to keep cutting, keep people out...to be 'a weapon.' So no, I don't think recovery has an end-point or should dismiss where somebody comes from. I also don't think it's wrong to discuss the differences between 'X-23' and 'Laura'? Or how marketing 'X-23' in exploitive ways without allowing for depth and growth not only freezes her characterization but potentially dehumanizes her journey.

[THE KZA]

EBas overprices for his sketches.

eBay screwed me over earlier today. I was going to bid on the Sideshow collectibles X-23 vs Lady Deathstrike statue and then it tells me that I logged out and I had to log in again. By the time I logged in the auction ended and the final price was 200 dollars cheaper than retail.

I posted this in the old X-23 thread before the board went new 52 and rebooted. Done by Clayton Crain

[FIGHT]

EBas overprices for his sketches.

eBay screwed me over earlier today. I was going to bid on the Sideshow collectibles X-23 vs Lady Deathstrike statue and then it tells me that I logged out and I had to log in again. By the time I logged in the auction ended and the final price was 200 dollars cheaper than retail.

I posted this in the old X-23 thread before the board went new 52 and rebooted. Done by Clayton Crain

It's weird to see Crain's art work look so... bright.
I was just rereading Necrosha.

[Moondoggie]

Clayton Crain does some great art he always seemed to do well with Laura too art wise.

[Galerion]

Thank you XCE for responding to my post and for not being at all dismissive in presenting your point of view. I really want to honor the positive spirit of your follow-up post by not dragging our different perspectives into negativity.
I already made my 'over the top' arguments of what I take as Bendis' attempts to further Laura's story by bringing valuable intimacy and compassion into her life. (Yes, fictional life). I respect that you don't agree.

I never made any suggestion that I thought Laura should be normal, baking cookies and just suddenly okay. Laura is a cutter. That's serious stuff; that doesn't go away. Recovery isn't a destination...it's a journey. So I do appreciate seeing her struggle with 'babysitting' and 'teenage love' and being with people who aren't asking anything of her, who just want to know her. To me, that's genuine struggle...it's difficult stuff...far easier to keep cutting, keep people out...to be 'a weapon.' So no, I don't think recovery has an end-point or should dismiss where somebody comes from. I also don't think it's wrong to discuss the differences between 'X-23' and 'Laura'? Or how marketing 'X-23' in exploitive ways without allowing for depth and growth not only freezes her characterization but potentially dehumanizes her journey.

You see the problem isn't with that kind of stuff. The problem is with how Bendis has been handling that.
You have read Lauras solo recently so just compare Liu to Bendis. They both did the same thing basically. Her solo was a story about self-discovery. It wasn't about her being a weapon and slaughtering a million guys in every single issue.
Liu did develop friendships with Jubilee and Gambit naturally and build up the relationship between her and Logan more and the most important thing is that she stayed true to the character. Everything made sense and felt believable.
The first thing Bendis did was changing her voice into that of a random teenager including slang and nonsensical phrases like "I think it's just one of my famous being-at-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-times."
Then there are the questions that still haven't been answered or addressed at all by Bendis

How did she end up in the streets of Miami after being picked up by Wolverine at the end of Arena?
Why doesn't she contact him or why doesn't he contact her? He is basically like a father to her. He even adopted her according to that one scene in her solo. Their relationship is the whole point about the Logan Legacy for crying out loud.
Why doesn't she care about what happened with the rest of the Avengers Academy crew?
Why is she sticking with the O5 instead of going back to the Academy or to Wolverine?

The third one in particular portrays her in a really bad light. It's like "yeah they were my team and friends and Im a bit sorry for what happened in Arena but I don't care about their fate. They could be lying dead in ditch for all I care."

And then we come to the thing that I would call shameless marketing.



I think nobody complained about this cover. Why? Because there is nothing that is out of character here. Hellion and Laura have been kinda in a relationship since New X-Men. It's actually pretty cute seeing them possibly entering a new stage in their relationship. What actually happened is a different issue altogether.




Now these covers on the other hand caused quite a stir for pretty obvious reasons. Laura first appearance in a new book goes alongside with a cover showing her kissing someone she doesn't even know. WTF?
Exactly 10 issues later we get another cover showing her doing the exact same thing again. Kissing someone she had almost no interaction with beforehand.
That is a slap in the face to who she is as a character. She was a strong and mostly independent woman before. Everybody who has read any comic with her before All New X-Men knows this.
It took years to get a cover like the one with Hellion and Laura and now she is passed around like arm candy for the male team members.
Do we got a cover with Iceman and Beast too in the future? That may sound like a silly and over the top question but after seeing her being used that way Im not so sure anymore.

I have said it before and I say it again now. The problem is not with the direction that has been taken. The problem is with the way she has been treated and the role she has been reduced to in my eyes. She has been used to prob up two different team members. First Cyclops with the whole "I fancy her and give her a hug and then she gives me a hug" business and then Angel because he is useless and has nothing else going for him really.

Liu did the same thing by focusing on Lauras human side and that blows the attempt from Bendis just out of the water because she didn't get reduced to anything, there weren't any provocative covers, she didn't had to have a romance with a guy to get some development going, there were no changes to her voice or character. She was the strong and fierce woman she always was, dealing with social stuff and her human side and more normal activities.

[Gray Lensman]

I have said it before and I say it again now. The problem is not with the direction that has been taken. The problem is with the way she has been treated and the role she has been reduced to in my eyes. She has been used to prob up two different team members. First Cyclops with the whole "I fancy her and give her a hug and then she gives me a hug" business and then Angel because he is useless and has nothing else going for him really.

I didn't mind the second one personally. While the cover was meant solely for shock value, the story (especially Laura hugging Scott when he had his BSOD moment in space) sold me on the possibility. (yes, My first thought was 'not the Scott/Jean/Logan thing again') Partially because I'm more a Scott fan, and have been chomping at the bit too see a non redhead, non-telepath relationship with him. And partially because I'm a sucker for symmetry (I wasn't fully sold on it until the Trail arc to be honest). I mentioned in a different thread that I get the feeling that Bendis lost the character he intended to use, but went ahead with his story anyways, and dropped Warren in place of Scott to tell the story already in progress. That's the part that truly leaves a bad taste in my mouth over it. If Bendis had used either character without the swap I probably could have bought into it. But instead he chose to do a disservice to everyone involved.

[Galerion]

I didn't mind the second one personally. While the cover was meant solely for shock value, the story (especially Laura hugging Scott when he had his BSOD moment in space) sold me on the possibility. (yes, My first thought was 'not the Scott/Jean/Logan thing again') Partially because I'm more a Scott fan, and have been chomping at the bit too see a non redhead, non-telepath relationship with him. And partially because I'm a sucker for symmetry (I wasn't fully sold on it until the Trail arc to be honest). I mentioned in a different thread that I get the feeling that Bendis lost the character he intended to use, but went ahead with his story anyways, and dropped Warren in place of Scott to tell the story already in progress. That's the part that truly leaves a bad taste in my mouth over it. If Bendis had used either character without the swap I probably could have bought into it. But instead he chose to do a disservice to everyone involved.

Pretty much. It really makes everyone one involved look bad.
Laura looks like she is the kind of girl that is easy to get and get laid with. The only thing you have to do is ask. We are talking about the same girl who was a child prostitute and who was in a relationship with Hellion for quite some time without ever getting touchy touchy. I really have trouble understanding how anyone could have thought this was a good idea.
Nice to see you in this thread by the way. Here have a bit of cake.

tumblr_mj0gc9Vwh01r6h499o6_400.jpg

[berserkerclaw]

Why thank you laura, I wouldn't mind cake on my birthday today.

I've always loved that pic Mike Choi is a fave artist

[Galerion]

Why thank you laura, I wouldn't mind cake on my birthday today.

I've always loved that pic Mike Choi is a fave artist

You really have birthday today? If so then congratulations from me.

[berserkerclaw]

Thanks, yeah it is my birthday. When I saw that old pic I thought it was great timing lol

[THE KZA]

Funny you posted the cover to X-23 #19

I actually own the original art to it