X-23 Appreciation Post: My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel

[Punisher007]

I don't have a problem with Laura being a bit more sexual (though certainly not a sex pot) or sleeping with a guy (or girl) if she chooses. I mean there's kind of an interesting parallel to her role in NYX to be had there potentially.

It's just that the execution has been decidedly lacking. I was willing to give the Young Cyclops thing a chance because there at least seemed to some chemistry and a slow burn going on there. But then it just, got dropped once he went into space with his dad and it's never come back up to my knowledge.

[MikaelNovasun]

Oh I would agree on that statement. But like children, who don't know what they are feeling, it can turn out as harmless deep caring and not be sexual oriented...know what I am saying? School girls that look up to their attractive teachers, because they don't know it better and have no experience. Later they look back and realize it was just harmles.
That's why I said deep caring and not sexual oriented.

I could see that if their interest in each other didn't change from how it was portrayed for the first few issues, but by the end of Kyle&Yost's New X-Men run it was obvious. Just ask Lady Deathstrike about it :P.

[Kubus-Sc7]

I could see that from if their interest in each other didn't change from how it was portrayed for the first few issues, but by the end of Kyle&Yost's New X-Men run it was obvious. Just ask Deathstrike about it :P.

Hm. Well, I like how it changed in her solo, when she confronted Hellion in the babysitter arc and realized she had changed and her feeling did. But Gambit had to explain that to him. She knew something was different, but her lack of experience made it difficult for her to understand. But Gambit as there to guide her. Even tho most don't like how Hellion was handled there, I liked how Laura was handled there.

[Ambaryerno]

I don't have a problem with Laura being a bit more sexual (though certainly not a sex pot) or sleeping with a guy (or girl) if she chooses. I mean there's kind of an interesting parallel to her role in NYX to be had there potentially.

It's just that the execution has been decidedly lacking. I was willing to give the Young Cyclops thing a chance because there at least seemed to some chemistry and a slow burn going on there. But then it just, got dropped once he went into space with his dad and it's never come back up to my knowledge.

Yeah, the Cyclops thing was really working well. Like a lot of people, I reacted pretty strongly to the cover (though mostly because I'm Helix for Life). Calling it shock value, etc. But upon actually READING their interactions, and knowing Scott's own history prior to the X-men, I started to see how they could actually have worked very well together. At that point the idea of turning the traditional Scott/Jean/Logan triangle on its ear would have just been a bonus. The fact that she had such palpably superior chemistry with Scott than Warren in the "Fix Laura's Relationship!" issue of ANXM was just a bunch of salt being ground into the wound.

[Ambaryerno]

Hm. Well, I like how it changed in her solo, when she confronted Hellion in the babysitter arc and realized she had changed and her feeling did. But Gambit had to explain that to him. She knew something was different, but her lack of experience made it difficult for her to understand. But Gambit as there to guide her. Even tho most don't like how Hellion was handled there, I liked how Laura was handled there.

Honestly, I don't. That may be the one time I've ever seen Laura in a completely unsympathetic light. She came across as cold, unfeeling, and heartless, with no real empathy for what Julian was going through. He spent the entire arc just trying to TALK about what he was dealing with, and Laura spent the entire arc pushing him away and not even listening. She dropped in to see him at the beginning like it was "Ok, I stopped. Now bye." Meanwhile Gambit and Logan were TREMENDOUS hypocrites, as both had done far, FAR worse in the past and been casually forgiven for it. Hellion at least had a GOD DAMNED GOOD REASON for what he did (Karima was KILLING ALL THE X-MEN. He was the ONLY PERSON in a position to stop her, and KARIMA HERSELF begged him to do it!) and everyone in the arc was treating him like a monster casually going around TK-punting babies into orbit.

[Punisher007]

Honestly, as much as I liked Liu's run overall, she did not handle that whole thing well at all imo. Hellion (who came out of it looking the most sympathetic actually), Laura, AND Gambit were all made to look bad, and it wasn't convincing.

[Gray Lensman]

Yeah, the Cyclops thing was really working well. Like a lot of people, I reacted pretty strongly to the cover (though mostly because I'm Helix for Life). Calling it shock value, etc. But upon actually READING their interactions, and knowing Scott's own history prior to the X-men, I started to see how they could actually have worked very well together. At that point the idea of turning the traditional Scott/Jean/Logan triangle on its ear would have just been a bonus. The fact that she had such palpably superior chemistry with Scott than Warren in the "Fix Laura's Relationship!" issue of ANXM was just a bunch of salt being ground into the wound.

That, and the interactions with Logan would have been gold. Part of me imagines him going over his dislike of Scott by listing a pile of personality traits - specifically the ones that Laura happens to share. It's one of those things that might look like sensationalism on the surface but could lead to some real character growth for everyone involved.

[Kubus-Sc7]

Honestly, I don't. That may be the one time I've ever seen Laura in a completely unsympathetic light. She came across as cold, unfeeling, and heartless, with no real empathy for what Julian was going through. He spent the entire arc just trying to TALK about what he was dealing with, and Laura spent the entire arc pushing him away and not even listening. She dropped in to see him at the beginning like it was "Ok, I stopped. Now bye." Meanwhile Gambit and Logan were TREMENDOUS hypocrites, as both had done far, FAR worse in the past and been casually forgiven for it. Hellion at least had a GOD DAMNED GOOD REASON for what he did (Karima was KILLING ALL THE X-MEN. He was the ONLY PERSON in a position to stop her, and KARIMA HERSELF begged him to do it!) and everyone in the arc was treating him like a monster casually going around TK-punting babies into orbit.

I don't see it from the perspective who has done worse...but how he handles it, how he behaves. And Hellion grabbing her, trying her to cage in, to force her...no. Logan and Gambit would respect the woman, they wouldn't force her to stay. That had a very rapey feel to me. Laura sensed that. Hellion was too far gone at that point. And that showed in the arc when he only wanted to talk about her, dismissing the kids completely. Laura can take care of herself, he knew that. But when she wanted to search for the kids, he was like "ah they are 2 kids, what is the worst that can happen? Here let's talk about us"
I say no to that. His character might be poorly written, but we all experienced that with Laura as well by now. They were clearly going with showing how selfish hellion is in that point. Then forcing her into a kiss and thinking everything is fine now, and then getting angry when she rejects him, because she has grown over her childish flirting feelings.
Which girl would chose the selfish guy who puts his own needs over defenseless kids?

[MikaelNovasun]

I don't see it from the perspective who has done worse...but how he handles it, how he behaves. And Hellion grabbing her, trying her to cage in, to force her...no. Logan and Gambit would respect the woman, they wouldn't force her to stay. That had a very rapey feel to me. Laura sensed that. Hellion was too far gone at that point. And that showed in the arc when he only wanted to talk about her, dismissing the kids completely. Laura can take care of herself, he knew that. But when she wanted to search for the kids, he was like "ah they are 2 kids, what is the worst that can happen? Here let's talk about us"
I say no to that. His character might be poorly written, but we all experienced that with Laura as well by now. They were clearly going with showing how selfish hellion is in that point. Then forcing her into a kiss and thinking everything is fine now, and then getting angry when she rejects him, because she has grown over her childish flirting feelings.
Which girl would chose the selfish guy who puts his own needs over defenseless kids?

I suggest reading more of Hellion's story around that time and not just Lui's X-23 run. He was in a dark place, feeling abandoned and looked upon as a cripple, and he was desperately reaching to the one person who he thought cared about him the most. It was the only real problem I had with Lui's X-23 series. She trashed Hellion, ignoring his story to make Laura look like she had out grown him. It isn't so much the break up that I have issue with, it is more the execution.

[Beaubier]

I don't see it from the perspective who has done worse...but how he handles it, how he behaves. And Hellion grabbing her, trying her to cage in, to force her...no. Logan and Gambit would respect the woman, they wouldn't force her to stay. That had a very rapey feel to me. Laura sensed that. Hellion was too far gone at that point. And that showed in the arc when he only wanted to talk about her, dismissing the kids completely. Laura can take care of herself, he knew that. But when she wanted to search for the kids, he was like "ah they are 2 kids, what is the worst that can happen? Here let's talk about us"
I say no to that. His character might be poorly written, but we all experienced that with Laura as well by now. They were clearly going with showing how selfish hellion is in that point. Then forcing her into a kiss and thinking everything is fine now, and then getting angry when she rejects him, because she has grown over her childish flirting feelings.
Which girl would chose the selfish guy who puts his own needs over defenseless kids?

I don't agree with that at all but I'm not getting into it. I'm honestly tired of the debate at this point.

[Kubus-Sc7]

I suggest reading more of Hellion's story around that time and not just Lui's X-23 run. He was in a dark place, feeling abandoned and looked upon as a cripple, and he was desperately reaching to the one person who he thought cared about him the most. It was the only real problem I had with Lui's X-23 series. She trashed Hellion, ignoring his story to make Laura look like she had out grown him. It isn't so much the break up that I have issue with, it is more the execution.

You have the necessary issues with his arc at hand?

[The Big G]

Hellion made a couple of bad moves...but nothing overtly bad. Plus the people who are supposed to teach/mentor him (Wolverine/Gambit) after he lost both his hands and the whole karima situation (in which Julian received little to no psychological therapy for) treat the kid like a bomb.

Gambit even threatened to blow off his other limbs. The fuck.

All Julian wanted to do was try to talk to the one person he thought was left in the world that would at least talk and attempt to empathize with him..but that person rejected him. Now I don't blame Laura wanting to proceed with the a relationship at the time because it would have been detrimental to both of them.

[The Big G]

You have the necessary issues with his arc at hand?

Kyost' NXM and X-Force runs plus Mike Carey's "Fables of the Reconstruction" arc from X-men Legacy cover all of it

[Centrions]

I don't see it from the perspective who has done worse...but how he handles it, how he behaves. And Hellion grabbing her, trying her to cage in, to force her...no. Logan and Gambit would respect the woman, they wouldn't force her to stay. That had a very rapey feel to me. Laura sensed that. Hellion was too far gone at that point. And that showed in the arc when he only wanted to talk about her, dismissing the kids completely. Laura can take care of herself, he knew that. But when she wanted to search for the kids, he was like "ah they are 2 kids, what is the worst that can happen? Here let's talk about us"
I say no to that. His character might be poorly written, but we all experienced that with Laura as well by now. They were clearly going with showing how selfish hellion is in that point. Then forcing her into a kiss and thinking everything is fine now, and then getting angry when she rejects him, because she has grown over her childish flirting feelings.
Which girl would chose the selfish guy who puts his own needs over defenseless kids?

In my opinion. Hellion was always an ass but he got even worse after Second Coming.

I'm glad Laura left him when she did.

[Punisher007]

He had a really good reason to be that way post-Second Coming. And Liu just basically ignored any and all context for it, because she had an agenda. And as a result, Laura and Gambit were the ones who came out looking worse.