X-23 Appreciation Post: My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel

[WebLurker]

The only time we've EVER seen a "cocky and high on herself" Laura has been the crap under Hopeless. And he HIMSELF established in their "makeup issue" it was just a front she was putting up all along BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE WARREN LIKE HER BETTER.

NONE OF THAT is in ANY way, shape, OR form who Laura has EVER been. Christ, I'd rather read an entire BENDIS X-23 solo book than to ever see Hopeless touch her again.

That you keep going back to that just shows how little you actually know the character's history.

In regards to the bolded, was that a preferable retcon to the situation, or did it just make a bad situation worse? (Haven't read that stuff yet.)

[Beaubier]

In regards to the bolded, was that a preferable retcon to the situation, or did it just make a bad situation worse? (Haven't read that stuff yet.)

It was infinitely preferable as Laura behaved wildly OOC prior to that. It’s been established that Laura can be insecure, so even though her behavior was incredibly extreme and unpalatable at least that much fit. It was still an incredibly insulting portrayal and the worst she’s ever been written (topping out even Bendis).

[Ambaryerno]

In regards to the bolded, was that a preferable retcon to the situation, or did it just make a bad situation worse? (Haven't read that stuff yet.)

I found it only made things worse, because as badly out of character as her reckless "something something bub WWLD" attitude was before, this was a complete 180 from all of Laura's character development prior to ANXM v.2.

[The Dying Detective]

It was infinitely preferable as Laura behaved wildly OOC prior to that. It’s been established that Laura can be insecure, so even though her behavior was incredibly extreme and unpalatable at least that much fit. It was still an incredibly insulting portrayal and the worst she’s ever been written (topping out even Bendis).

I didn't think anyone would top Bendis Laura gets treated as badly as Jason Todd was during Post-Crisis.

[Ambaryerno]

I didn't think anyone would top Bendis Laura gets treated as badly as Jason Todd was during Post-Crisis.

There were four key problems with Bendis' handling of Laura:

1) Her voice. While I don't buy into the Liu-era Robo-Laura speech, Bendis went WAY too far the opposite direction. He just didn't have a handle on how she speaks.
2) It frankly didn't make sense for her to be there. Logically, she SHOULD have joined one of the JGS books, whether Adjectiveless, Amazing, or WatXM. He completely failed to explain how the hell she got lost from the medical chopper Wolverine put her on at the end of Arena, to end up captured and tortured by Purifiers.
3) It seems that Bendis just plain didn't know what to DO with her, as she really didn't have much to do. In Trial of Jean Grey she loses any chance to shine because Gamora and Angela stole her thunder. By the time her skills COULD have been used, it became completely unnecessary. And don't get me started on Black Vortex. I love how the chick with the Healing Factor WAS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE DAMN EVENT that got knocked into a coma during the first fight over the Vortex. To say nothing of her spending the REST of the event locked in amber on Spartax...not doing anything.
4) As mentioned, the Angel hookup was random and made no sense.

By and large, her ACTIONS were pretty in-character, (which is more than we can say for Hopeless) but that gets generally overshadowed by the rest.

[The Dying Detective]

There were four key problems with Bendis' handling of Laura:

1) Her voice. While I don't buy into the Liu-era Robo-Laura speech, Bendis went WAY too far the opposite direction. He just didn't have a handle on how she speaks.
2) It frankly didn't make sense for her to be there. Logically, she SHOULD have joined one of the JGS books, whether Adjectiveless, Amazing, or WatXM. He completely failed to explain how the hell she got lost from the medical chopper Wolverine put her on at the end of Arena, to end up captured and tortured by Purifiers.
3) It seems that Bendis just plain didn't know what to DO with her, as she really didn't have much to do. In Trial of Jean Grey she loses any chance to shine because Gamora and Angela stole her thunder. By the time her skills COULD have been used, it became completely unnecessary. And don't get me started on Black Vortex. I love how the chick with the Healing Factor WAS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE DAMN EVENT that got knocked into a coma during the first fight over the Vortex. To say nothing of her spending the REST of the event locked in amber on Spartax...not doing anything.
4) As mentioned, the Angel hookup was random and made no sense.

By and large, her ACTIONS were pretty in-character, (which is more than we can say for Hopeless) but that gets generally overshadowed by the rest.

I know Bendis had a lot of influence at Marvel but why would he ask for a character he had no real plans for and had trouble handling because introverts aren't his specialty? Did Marvel just hand him Laura and expect him to perform magic with her? And why did Hopeless have to continue Benid's dumpster fire romance because he could have just broken them up and hardly anyone would have cared that it happened? It could be worse at least Laura didn't get treated the same way Jason Todd as the Red Hood got treated when he came back. He killed criminals but he had a code against harming children and later writers left him to be defined by rage and have him disregard his code altogether.

[Thievery]

Well between Hellion's aggressiveness and Laura's cold attitude I think Hellion came off as the one who looked a little better since Julian was willing to at least try to be regretful for his angry outbursts. And apparently living for many years damaged Logan's brain to not think of hiring a psychologist to help him handle kids he is trying to give give a better life to.

I have to disagree with the idea that Julien came out looking better than Laura. Julian tried to restrain Laura with TK out of anger and Laura had to tell him to release her. Right before this he used TK to smash a door or window or soeting out of anger because Laura didn't want to be in a room with a closed door. When Julien first arrives at the FF headquarters Julien asks if he can come in and Laura tells him no. And when Laura rejects Julien after he kisses her Julien says some really mean things to her. Rrgardless of weather Laura was being cold or not she has the right to say no to Julien. I don't think you can hold Laura's social awkwardness or being an invert against her here.

And the way Julien would creepily watch Laura after the baby sitting arc didn't make him look good either.

I have still hard time understanding the Hellion obssesion. Laura is not a Normal girl but a mutant Girl with special needs. She herself has specific needs as character. Julian is just not her fit. I also reckon that alot people are blaming Warren for not helping her? I mean really? Warren is not as Powerful mutant as Julian or Laura. He can die in even a normal explosion hence why his just a lift guy.

You have made some interesting points here Wolvie valley(at least in my opinion), but I'm afraid I have to disagree with this one. Warren still had the Black Vortex powers during Hopeless' run. That made him way more powerful than Laura, Julien, and probably the rest of the O5 outside of maybe Beast with his magic. In reality the other teen X Men should have been using Warren to take all the heavy damage as their front line fighter. If Warren cared about Laura that much he should have used the silly vortex powers to do the heavy fighting to help Laura even if he was having a hard time with the Vortex powers. He shouldn't have just stood on the sidelines complaining about Laura being reckless and berating her about it. Take some action. If Laura had a problem with Warren rushing into battle before her to use his silly vortex powers he should have tried to work things out with her.

In regards to the bolded, was that a preferable retcon to the situation, or did it just make a bad situation worse? (Haven't read that stuff yet.)

I would say yes. The Laura/Warren romance was nothing but a teen romance. Teens frequently do stupid things to impress their boyfriend or girlfriend. Becouse of Laura's social awkwardness it made some sense that she would be bad at trying to impress her boyfriend when she clearly wasn't. It makes Laura's characterization make a little more sense when looked at that way. Still it was a stupid teen romance in my opinion and I didn't care for it.

[The Dying Detective]

I have to disagree with the idea that Julien came out looking better than Laura. Julian tried to restrain Laura with TK out of anger and Laura had to tell him to release her. Right before this he used TK to smash a door or window or something out of anger because Laura didn't want to be in a room with a closed door. When Julien first arrives at the FF headquarters Julien asks if he can come in and Laura tells him no. And when Laura rejects Julian after he kisses her Julian says some really mean things to her. Rrgardless of weather Laura was being cold or not she has the right to say no to Julien. I don't think you can hold Laura's social awkwardness or being an invert against her here.

And the way Julian would creepily watch Laura after the baby sitting arc didn't make him look good either.

You could say that but much of the writing of that story seemed to fly in the face of all the development Laura went through and technically she came to Julian's room he didn't go to her and he didn't even know she was in New York. If she had no real reason to be there she should not have even come to him the first place. Which made her look just as bad for leading him on. And her reminder to Julian that she was not good with words reeked of someone trying to save a poorly conceived story. I'd rather Liu not do something like that because Julian was also in a bad place and it left him broken even more than he already was. And as far as I can tell that creepy stalking thing seemed to be another stupid thing Liu came up with to try and justify her badly conceived story.

[Thievery]

You could say that but much of the writing of that story seemed to fly in the face of all the development Laura went through and technically she came to Julian's room he didn't go to her and he didn't even know she was in New York. If she had no real reason to be there she should not have even come to him the first place. Which made her look just as bad for leading him on. And her reminder to Julian that she was not good with words reeked of someone trying to save a poorly conceived story. I'd rather Liu not do something like that because Julian was also in a bad place and it left him broken even more than he already was. And as far as I can tell that creepy stalking thing seemed to be another stupid thing Liu came up with to try and justify her badly conceived story.

I can kind of see were you are coming from, especially about the part about Laura walking into Julien's room. But just because some one walks into a friend's room to say hello doesn't mean you owe that friend a date or to enter into a relationship with him or her. And it definitely doesn't give Julien the right to restrain Laura just because she walked into his room and then tried to leave.

And as far as the creepy stalking thing goes, well even if it was come up with only to justify Liu's story it did happen on panel and you cant just ignore that it happened.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Sometimes I think that they kept teen Warren on the sidelines not because he was a wimp or stalking Laura but because if he got involved in a fight with all of that power then it'd take away from teen Scott and Jean and Laura and their activities...

[The Dying Detective]

I can kind of see were you are coming from, especially about the part about Laura walking into Julien's room. But just because some one walks into a friend's room to say hello doesn't mean you owe that friend a date or to enter into a relationship with him or her. And it definitely doesn't give Julien the right to restrain Laura just because she walked into his room and then tried to leave.

And as far as the creepy stalking thing goes, well even if it was come up with only to justify Liu's story it did happen on panel and you cant just ignore that it happened.

You have a point but but Laura was being indifferent to a boy with PSTD and has been treated like a potential supervillain because he killed and after a while he began to feel nothing but anger for his actions. While she was given nothing but loving attention by everyone. And she never found this odd? In fact asking her for a date wasn't even the first thing Julian asked her when she came to him he thought she was there to talk to him. And the retraining thing wouldn't have happened if she wasn't acting so cold and evasive. She could walk up to the survivor of a family she killed and out of good consciousness not remind him of a past he would rather forget but she couldn't help a boy who was being mistreated the same way she was? I can't ignore the stalking scene and all I can describe it as is an unnecessary addition to a horrible idea and piece of continuity that could be used to redeem Julian should he and Laura meet again.

[Thievery]

You have a point but but Laura was being indifferent to a boy with PSTD and has been treated like a potential supervillain because he killed and after a while he began to feel nothing but anger for his actions. While she was given nothing but loving attention by everyone. And she never found this odd? In fact asking her for a date wasn't even the first thing Julian asked her when she came to him he thought she was there to talk to him. And the retraining thing wouldn't have happened if she wasn't acting so cold and evasive. She could walk up to the survivor of a family she killed and out of good consciousness not remind him of a past he would rather forget but she couldn't help a boy who was being mistreated the same way she was? I can't ignore the stalking scene and all I can describe it as is an unnecessary addition to a horrible idea and piece of continuity that could be used to redeem Julian should he and Laura meet again.

I get your point about Hellion having PSTD . Where was the PTSD element revealed by the way? Am I simply overlooking the page in my collection or does it happen in a non X-23 comic? And even though Hellion was having some emotional issues I still don't think it justifies what happened between Julien and Laura. I don't think it would in real life. And just because some one is acting cold and distant doesn't give you the right to restrain that person the way Julien did. I will agree that Julien deserves some small credit for apologizing for it.

I agree with you about the other X-Men taking the wrong approach with dealing with Julien after his trauma. Just about every member of the X-Men has killed some one at this point and you would think they would be a little more understanding about it. Especially considering Julien's age.

[The Dying Detective]

I get your point about Hellion having PSTD . Where was the PTSD element revealed by the way? Am I simply overlooking the page in my collection or does it happen in a non X-23 comic? And even though Hellion was having some emotional issues I still don't think it justifies what happened between Julien and Laura. I don't think it would in real life. And just because some one is acting cold and distant doesn't give you the right to restrain that person the way Julien did. I will agree that Julien deserves some small credit for apologizing for it.

I agree with you about the other X-Men taking the wrong approach with dealing with Julien after his trauma. Just about every member of the X-Men has killed some one at this point and you would think they would be a little more understanding about it. Especially considering Julien's age.

I believe it happened in an issue of X-Men Legacy where Rogue talked Hellion into helping her save one of their comrades from dimensional limbo as a form of redemption after pointing out the reason why he wanted to leave so badly after killing Karima even though he was indifferent to the act was because he was sick of himself. He agreed and the mission was a success but that got ignored instead. And Hellion still got treated like a pariah. No it doesn't justify what happened but frankly since neither looked good it made it something of a challenge to sympathies with Laura and Julian at all really. So Liu was just being foolish about how she went with the story. And thank you Hellion killing should have been a warning sign to Cyclops and the rest that as educators and examples the X-Men have failed and needed to rethink their stances.

[Thievery]

I believe it happened in an issue of X-Men Legacy where Rogue talked Hellion into helping her save one of their comrades from dimensional limbo as a form of redemption after pointing out the reason why he wanted to leave so badly after killing Karima even though he was indifferent to the act was because he was sick of himself. He agreed and the mission was a success but that got ignored instead. And Hellion still got treated like a pariah. No it doesn't justify what happened but frankly since neither looked good it made it something of a challenge to sympathies with Laura and Julian at all really. So Liu was just being foolish about how she went with the story. And thank you Hellion killing should have been a warning sign to Cyclops and the rest that as educators and examples the X-Men have failed and needed to rethink their stances.

Thank you for the info about wich issue the PTSD reveal happened. I thought I read that story somewhere.

I may have the timeline for this story incorrect, but I believe Hellion killing Omega Sentinel happened around the Schism story about weather or not the X-Men should allow children to kill. The Julien thing may have been an attempt by the X office to show why children shouldn't be allowed to kill during the Schism thing if I have the timeline for these issues right. It would be a stupid reason for the story though.
And even if I do have the timeline for these stories right that theory of mine is unproven head cannon and you still have to go with what was seen on panel. And what was seen on panel was the adult X-Men treating Hellion pretty badly for some thing most of them had already done and it was stupid.

[The Dying Detective]

Thank you for the info about wich issue the PTSD reveal happened. I thought I read that story somewhere.

I may have the timeline for this story incorrect, but I believe Hellion killing Omega Sentinel happened around the Schism story about weather or not the X-Men should allow children to kill. The Julien thing may have been an attempt by the X office to show why children shouldn't be allowed to kill during the Schism thing if I have the timeline for these issues right. It would be a stupid reason for the story though.
And even if I do have the timeline for these stories right that theory of mine is unproven head cannon and you still have to go with what was seen on panel. And what was seen on panel was the adult X-Men treating Hellion pretty badly for some thing most of them had already done and it was stupid.

You are correct Hellion killing the Omega Sentinel Karima happened around Schism and Hellion joined Cyclop's side which advocated teaching their students how defend themselves. Whether that was the reason i don't know but it was the start of how uncaring Marvel became to the newer and less well-known mutants except Laura. Which all sort of messed up as new characters always mean new stories and new merchandise to push. I laugh at how Cyclops said what Hellion did was a path most of them never took when all of them kind of had even Cyclops. Rogue threatening to kill Julian was the final act of weirdness of that story.