Is Steve Rogers actually a captain?

[t hedge coke]

That's the point. Steve Rogers is convinced that he knows what is right best than anybody else, he considers himself unerring. He thinks that everybody should do as he says and think as he does, Democracy be damned.

Ain't that America?

I do love a Cap who plays ball better with good people than the Cap who threatens, intimidates, and breaks the windows of people who are doing their legal and sound job or disagree with him. Some folks just write a very bad Cap.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

I think Steve Rogers just took the title the same way he decided to call himself "America", because he thought it sounds cool.

Of course he could have been given all kind of honorary ranks since then.

I have never been entirely comfortable with the whole "Captain America" thing: A guy deciding that he is the living encarnation of his country AND of the values of Democracy, Liberty...etc., sounds overly entitled. And whenever his opinion differs with that of his government, the Senate, or the American people as a whole, he tries to force his will, thinking that he knows better; he did it when he rebelled during Civil War and when he got rid of the Cabal despite the government, the American people and the UN supporting them.

The only reason he doesn't look like an entitled, arrogant douche is because MU will never allow him to be wrong or to fail, and because all the other heroes are his fans and look up to him.

First, this has nothing to do with the thread. Next, the title of Captain American was given to him. He didn't just call himself that. Third, every superhero there decided to get rid of the Cabal because everybody hated them. Next, just because majority vote on something doesn't mean that the way things should be. Remember, slavery used to be majority opinion and sterilizing the poor and stupid, and sending Native Americans to reservations. Human rights are a thing. At least they are supposed to be.

[resipsaloquitur]

Regrettable fact: a lot of military stuff in comics isn't well researched, so terminology tends to be thrown around and you get the impression that the writer doesn't know what they're doing with it. A civilian may not notice, but it does drive some of us who've served in the military a little crazy.

I remember during John Cassady's brief Cap run, a soldier salutes Cap and Cap replies "I'm not an officer." Other posts here would indicate that he is. Point is that different creators have taken different positions as to what Cap is, so don't expect to see a consistent, official approach to Cap's military status. (Other problem areas: Marvel can't make up its mind whether Frank Castle is was a soldier or a Marine, and whether Thunderbolt Ross was a soldier or an Airman.)

[Jack Flag]

Or was it just an honorary title? Isn't Captain relatively low in the army ?

I have been reading Captain America since the 70s. In a storyline by Mark Gruenwald, Cap got his back pay for all that time he was frozen in the ice. He was officially a private in the US Army and that was his pay - he used that to fund his Captain America hotline.

Captain America was a either a knickname or a codename. He was not a "captain". Also, while he was in the US Army as a private, his duties were outside the control of the US Military and he answered directly to the president. Captain America was primarily a spy and sabatuer smasher and not a soldier on the front line in the original 40s series. As was common in the Golden Age, a lot of the story lines fun had to do with Private Steve Rogers trying to keep his identiy as Captain America secret from his overbearing seargent and looking for ways to sneak off and change into his Captain America outfit and sneak back to base camp and change back to private without getting caught. It would end up Steve missed out on performing a task the sarge had lined up for him and the comic ended him comically doing some kitchen duty as punsihment.

I think in cartoons and other media marketed to casual readers this is too confusing so they make it seem he is a captain in the army. I think Marvel may just ignore the past and make him be a captain in the US Army from WW2.

[Habis]

Third, every superhero there decided to get rid of the Cabal because everybody hated them.

And muggles don't get a say? Having a select aristocracy take all the decisions isn't very democratic, you know.

Next, just because majority vote on something doesn't mean that the way things should be. Remember, slavery used to be majority opinion and sterilizing the poor and stupid, and sending Native Americans to reservations.

He has every right to fight for his convictions. But he can't claim to represent America while fighting against the will of most Americans, against the government and against the laws.

At some point in the past he called himself just the Captain because he opposed what the democratically chosen government was doing. Nowadays he just forces the government to do as he says.

And anyways, in a Democracy there are legal channels to right things you think unjust. If everybody were to use violence to do what they want, it would be chaos.

Human rights are a thing. At least they are supposed to be.

Taking justice into your own hands isn't a human right. And that was what he was defending during Civil War. Yes, Tony was breaking the law too, sending people to extradimensional Guantanamo, but Steve could have told the heroes to hide while he tried to convince people to annul the Registration Act instead of starting an armed rebellion. I mean, if people don't want to be protected by heroes, it's their right. They will change their minds the next time Ultron or Kang attacks.

[Jack Flag]

And muggles don't get a say? Having a select aristocracy take all the decisions isn't very democratic, you know.



He has every right to fight for his convictions. But he can't claim to represent America while fighting against the will of most Americans, against the government and against the laws.

At some point in the past he called himself just the Captain because he opposed what the democratically chosen government was doing. Nowadays he just forces the government to do as he says.

And anyways, in a Democracy there are legal channels to right things you think unjust. If everybody were to use violence to do what they want, it would be chaos.



Taking justice into your own hands isn't a human right. And that was what he was defending during Civil War. Yes, Tony was breaking the law too, sending people to extradimensional Guantanamo, but Steve could have told the heroes to hide while he tried to convince people to annul the Registration Act instead of starting an armed rebellion. I mean, if people don't want to be protected by heroes, it's their right. They will change their minds the next time Ultron or Kang attacks.

The whole cabal/illuminati thing was poor writting. Best to pretend it never existed.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

And muggles don't get a say? Having a select aristocracy take all the decisions isn't very democratic, you know.



He has every right to fight for his convictions. But he can't claim to represent America while fighting against the will of most Americans, against the government and against the laws.

At some point in the past he called himself just the Captain because he opposed what the democratically chosen government was doing. Nowadays he just forces the government to do as he says.

And anyways, in a Democracy there are legal channels to right things you think unjust. If everybody were to use violence to do what they want, it would be chaos.



Taking justice into your own hands isn't a human right. And that was what he was defending during Civil War. Yes, Tony was breaking the law too, sending people to extradimensional Guantanamo, but Steve could have told the heroes to hide while he tried to convince people to annul the Registration Act instead of starting an armed rebellion. I mean, if people don't want to be protected by heroes, it's their right. They will change their minds the next time Ultron or Kang attacks.

Whatever, I'm not going to derail the thread.

So, OP it probably isn't his actually rank but a codename. Do to how bad comics are with military depictions I have no idea what his actual rank is.

[t hedge coke]

Whatever, I'm not going to derail the thread.

So, OP it probably isn't his actually rank but a codename. Do to how bad comics are with military depictions I have no idea what his actual rank is.

If reading Marvel taught me anything, it's that a lot of writers think being a Colonel in the Air Force and having a background that includes heading security for NASA, running missions side by side with Nick Fury, being Wolverine's CO, and heading a major magazine mean that you don't know how to lead anything and should never be conferred with for tactical advice.

But Hawkeye is a "natural born leader" because he really wants it.

Cap's kind of in the middle of that dynamic.

[resipsaloquitur]

Whatever, I'm not going to derail the thread.

So, OP it probably isn't his actually rank but a codename. Do to how bad comics are with military depictions I have no idea what his actual rank is.

This. Also, the fact that Marvel has been horribly inconsistent in explaining Cap's rank. Any citation given in this thread is just the opinion of that writer at the time that comic came out. I would be satisfied if Marvel just declared that "Captain America" is a mantle, that Private was a dummy rank for when Steve was undercover, and that he's risen through various pay grades for rank and pay determination. If they want to cal him an O-7 now, great. He's probably a civilian SES since he's running SHIELD now.