Most overrated and underrated DC characters

[Buried Alien]

Long before Geoff Johns became a professional comic book writer, the idea that Barry Allen might have influenced the direction of the Speed Force was a published concept. In SECRET ORIGINS ANNUAL # 2, Barry *literally* (at the time of his death in COIE) became the lightning bolt that had given him superspeed years earlier (e.g. Barry was the cause of his own origin as the Flash, though he was unaware of it). Later, it was heavily implied that Barry might also have directed the lightning bolt that "chose" Wally to also receive the superspeed (it wasn't a coincidence that Wally experienced the same lightning/chemical accident that Barry had). Even the lightning bolt that stunned Reverse Flash and reinvigorated Wally in THE RETURN OF BARRY ALLEN storyline is implied to have been a noncorporeal manifestation of Barry.

The only possible retcon that FLASH: REBIRTH introduced is the idea that Barry was also somehow responsible for Jay's gaining superspeed in the Golden Age, but I don't think that's what Jay actually meant (granted, it was odd and ill-fitting dialogue). Barry certainly didn't make Jay the Flash in any sense of the word, but he did reanimate Jay's career after years of dormancy.

FLASH: REBIRTH had its flaws, and if I had written it, I'd have told a different story...but let's not blame the character (Barry Allen) for the flaws of that storyline. Disturbingly, many readers fall into that mental trap that it's BARRY's fault that he was in a dubiously plotted story, and that that one poor story tarnishes everything he stood and stands for. These characters are not so fragile that they can't survive a bad story or two.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Sirzechs]

Understood, but since Barry was pushed to the #1 spot again, that meant he was going to be the best again. That's just how comics work. It doesn't matter if it messes with the continuity or not.



They were a de facto team for a while after Ollie came back from the grave.



But Wally was clearly the best of the speedsters before Barry's return. With that said, if Bart had stayed as the Flash, then he would have sooner or later been written as more accomplished. Again, just the way comics works.

Yeah it reminds me of everything to with the Lanterns, Hal wore multiple rings before the others but Kyle was the one to achieve White Lantern status on his own, Guy mastering Rage, Simon using the ring to heal and Sinestro well....being the king of everything.
Comics are kinda like pro wrestling at times, established characters are jobbed out for new/returning character.

[Buried Alien]

Understood, but since Barry was pushed to the #1 spot again, that meant he was going to be the best again. That's just how comics work. It doesn't matter if it messes with the continuity or not.

This always gets overlooked, but I thought Barry seemed a bit out of it and off his game in FLASH: REBIRTH. For the most part, Wally seemed more on his game in that story.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BohemiaDrinker]

Understood, but since Barry was pushed to the #1 spot again, that meant he was going to be the best again. That's just how comics work. It doesn't matter if it messes with the continuity or not.

In this case, I disagree. If Barry was to be the best, let him. If you erase others' time as a consequence, then, it's not ok. As I said before, if they wanted to make one character the best, improve him, instead of of screwing the rest of them.

They were a de facto team for a while after Ollie came back from the grave.

Can't say I recall that clearly but for the end of Quiver. Still, it's pretty much the same situation.

But Wally was clearly the best of the speedsters before Barry's return. With that said, if Bart had stayed as the Flash, then he would have sooner or later been written as more accomplished. Again, just the way comics works.

Well, yeah; and who is "the best" at any given point of time is academical. When they go "this one guy has always been and will always be the best, no matter what you read that can contradict that", then a comic is transformed into a rumble section of a comic board, or a fanfic.

Long before Geoff Johns became a professional comic book writer, the idea that Barry Allen might have influenced the direction of the Speed Force was a published concept. In SECRET ORIGINS ANNUAL # 2, Barry *literally* (at the time of his death in COIE) became the lightning bolt that had given him superspeed years earlier (e.g. Barry was the cause of his own origin as the Flash, though he was unaware of it). Later, it was heavily implied that Barry might also have directed the lightning bolt that "chose" Wally to also receive the superspeed (it wasn't a coincidence that Wally experienced the same lightning/chemical accident that Barry had). Even the lightning bolt that stunned Reverse Flash and reinvigorated Wally in THE RETURN OF BARRY ALLEN storyline is implied to have been a noncorporeal manifestation of Barry.

/\ Yup, and all of that was awesome!

The only possible retcon that FLASH: REBIRTH introduced is the idea that Barry was also somehow responsible for Jay's gaining superspeed in the Golden Age, but I don't think that's what Jay actually meant (granted, it was odd and ill-fitting dialogue). Barry certain didn't make Jay the Flash in any sense of the word, but he did reanimate Jay's career after years of dormancy.

Actually, not really Buried. There wasn't only Jay in the old days, for instance. And then, the speed force itself, in the rare times it was described, it was as the sum of all speedsters, from all time, etc. Not Barry himself, or something he creates, or something that he feeds. And then there's the implication that anyone else only ever had access to a fraction of Barry's power. And the list goes on; meaning that the path they took in Rebirth was to diminish everyone so Barry could be at the top; the worst possible interpretation of the concepts you mentioned.

FLASH: REBIRTH had its flaws, and if I had written it, I'd have told a different story...but let's not blame the character (Barry Allen) for the flaws of that storyline. Disturbingly, many readers fall into that mental trap that it's BARRY's fault that he was in a dubiously plotted story, and that that one poor story tarnishes everything he stood and stands for. These characters are not so fragile that they can't survive a bad story or two.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Hey, I blame a lot of people for that crap, but not one fictional character.

Wait, is that true? I tend to avoid Johns comics and haven't felt compelled to pick up the new Flash series, but does their power really come from sharing his sense of justice or is that just colorful language? That would be truly awful if true.

It was, for the short period between Flash Rebirth and the reboot. Thankfully, Manapul and Buccelato steered away from that as much as they couldd. The idea didn't have legs.

I heard Venditti is screwing with the SF again, but I'm a little behind on Flash - I dropped again and am not really motivated to read on loan - but I honestly believe that, if true, it won't last either.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Yeah it reminds me of everything to with the Lanterns, Hal wore multiple rings before the others but Kyle was the one to achieve White Lantern status on his own, Guy mastering Rage, Simon using the ring to heal and Sinestro well....being the king of everything.
Comics are kinda like pro wrestling at times, established characters are jobbed out for new/returning character.

Hal had no business with all those rings, though.

And talking about jobbing, on the last GLC (or GL?) arc before the reboot, every Earth Lantern was choosing a non-green ring to wear, and somehow they decided that Hal was the best suited for the yellow one, which he couldn't really control.

Guy had wore Sinestro's ring perfectly for years before that...

[Sansomon]

Overrated

Batman the Lord "Mom, I'm the guy who grabbed by the neck and filled with beatings, Superman and can beat anyone no matter who!"

Wonder Woman the Miss " 'God is actually woman' absolutely perfect and unbeatable that does not need men to nothing but her fill of blows and then come stay with that feminist chat mushy 'Ha-Ha! Hu-Hu! We are strong! We are Women! We are United ...' "

Green Lantern Hal "Actually, I'm better than God, only not said" Jordan

Cyborg "fill the blows the Iron Man with a paper clip, elastic and a Swiss army knife to mount an appropriate weapon"

Crime Syndicate of America "We're the guys who defeated all the more powerful heroes and villains of the Earth-1 with one hand tied in the back and we and happen to without having anyone stop him because we are f*, we are bad we are protected from the writers"

Underrated

Teen Titans to change so much and so roughly a team that was already super loved ?

Justice League International could have been a wonderful title. I was just bring back, fun and mindless humor, sitcom, tv, humorous, and the pair of original title writers Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis, and brought a near classical team and ready would have been a success a return to one of the best epochs of the Justice League in which the bad guys did not have to be "monsters" and heroes not need to be "the best that ever lived" just a bunch of well-meaning guys who did not take anything seriously to do all the difference. The DC Comics wasted a great chance with this title.

Hawkman one of the most classic heroes of the DC who can not find someone who knows how to write he.

Hawk and Dove three words "killed by Liefeld"

Legion of Super-Heroes was really sad the way we ended this title. One of the most classical super-teams future of comic book heroes wasted this way. I have no words to express how sorry I am.

[Amacent]

Overrated:

- Batman and his family (excluding Batwoman and Cassandra Cain)
- Deathstroke

Underrated:

- Animal Man
- Aquaman
- Dr. Light (Kimiyo Hoshi)
- Justice League International (Booster, Blue Beetle, Fire & Ice, etc.)
- Legion of Super-Heroes
- New Gods
- Steel
- Supergirl and Superboy
- Vixen

[Darrin Kelley]

Overrated: Lobo, Superman, Ambush Bug.

[Rockym]

Raven was brainwashed by her father. Terra betrayed the Titans willingly. You're also forgetting she's a hero in the new universe.

Wasn't it later shown that Deathstroke drugged his apprentices and he told GeoForce that the drugs he gave her may have been what caused her to become psychotic? So Terra could have also been brainwashed, but by Deathstroke. The original TV series portrayed it that way as well.

The point I'm trying to make is that the difference is that Raven wasn't condemned by her creator like Terra was, and was allowed to be forgiven for doing much worse things than Terra.

[Agent Z]

Wasn't it later shown that Deathstroke drugged his apprentices and he told GeoForce that the drugs he gave her may have been what caused her to become psychotic? So Terra could have also been brainwashed, but by Deathstroke. The original TV series portrayed it that way as well.

The point I'm trying to make is that the difference is that Raven wasn't condemned by her creator like Terra was, and was allowed to be forgiven for doing much worse things than Terra.

That was a retcon added later to make Terra more sympathetic. Raven may have done worse but it was under the influence of another party. With Terra they had to chnage the original story. I get that you preferred the cartoon Terra (I do to) but that's a completely different take from the one in the comics.

[Rockym]

That was a retcon added later to make Terra more sympathetic. Raven may have done worse but it was under the influence of another party. With Terra they had to chnage the original story. I get that you preferred the cartoon Terra (I do to) but that's a completely different take from the one in the comics.

So, it's a retcon. What's the big deal about that? Most retcons add to the story. And yes I prefer cartoon Terra (original series, not that TTGo garbage), but I like the comics version too. Matter of fact, the original TV series made me see the comics version of Terra in a whole new light. And it changed my outlook and made me feel that Terra was treated very unfairly compared to other characters in the comic books.

[Agent Z]

So, it's a retcon. What's the big deal about that? Most retcons add to the story. And yes I prefer cartoon Terra (original series, not that TTGo garbage), but I like the comics version too. Matter of fact, the original TV series made me see the comics version of Terra in a whole new light. And it changed my outlook and made me feel that Terra was treated very unfairly compared to other characters in the comic books.

Just pointing out the difference between Tara and Raven's situations. When Judas Contract was written it was made clear that Tara was acting of her own free will. I understand your preference for cartoon Terra since I like her to.

Retcons are always a tricky beasts especially when it comes to classic stories like the Judas Contract. Sometimes they can be good, other times they can be bad.

[Rockym]

Just pointing out the difference between Tara and Raven's situations. When Judas Contract was written it was made clear that Tara was acting of her own free will. I understand your preference for cartoon Terra since I like her to.

Retcons are always a tricky beasts especially when it comes to classic stories like the Judas Contract. Sometimes they can be good, other times they can be bad.

Yes, but that was only because Wolfman made that declaration at the end of the story. They could have made a declaration like that at the end of the Trigon story, but she was instead forgiven. Likewise, the JC story could have been written with Terra being influenced by Deathstroke. It could have gone either way until that declaration was made at the end.

[dancj]

Overrated:
Hal Jordan
Dick Grayson

Underrated:
Cassandra Cain (back when she could barely talk)
The Ventriloquist (Arnold Wesker)

[dumbduck]

Judas Contract blew me away. It was *the* heaviest story I read as a kid yet. I'm thankfull that I never fell for shipping Gar and Terra. It's understandable that newer fans reject it, but wanting to retcon the past, 2 reboots after the fact, won't really work for the character.

Overrated -


Underrated - Zatanna, Aquaman, Mera.