Bird of Prey! The Sam Wilson Appreciation

[DragonsChi]

Eh...I get what your saying but if Sam stays on track he is looking to be on the same level as Steve in terms of leadership. He was already established as the Best Arial Combatant in the MU way back in the early days. All he needs now is just to be elevated some more as a combatant in general. Which I feel is coming.

[XPac]

Eh, not really the same. Batman knows almost every single martial art in the world. Has gadgets for almost every occasion, billions dollars, and has the best prep ability in the DCU. The Falcon can fly, and see through birds.

Sorry, not the same.

Captain America is at the best physical condition a human can be, Falcon isn't.

And this is where the issue lies. In terms of fighting capabilities, he's completely lower class. He gets regularly whooped by Misty during training sessions, and during much of Remeder run he barely won a single fight. It wasn't until spencer got a hold of him that his outcomes against villains became a little better.

So while I agree that his stories will play a important role, him getting a power up (be it getting some lessons with chi from Iron Fist, to batman like gadgets) would definitely help seal the deal of him not being just a sidekick to a superior steve rodgers but being considered a threat on his own.

He just needs his own stories for that. If he gets his own book, he'll beat bad guys and he'll do that with or without upgrades. It's not like if he doesn't get upgrades he'll be losing. He'll beat whatever bad guy he faces in the end because that's what always happens. Whether he beats them with some new power or with his existing powers is irrelavent because the outcome will still be the same.

That's why I was never a believer in the necessasity or super heroes to become more and more powerful. The heroes will win anyways, so it really doesn't matter. Sam having an on-going book will get him where he needs to go. It's just a matter of whether or not that book can keep from getting cancelled... that's the hard part.

[DragonsChi]

He just needs his own stories for that. If he gets his own book, he'll beat bad guys and he'll do that with or without upgrades. It's not like if he doesn't get upgrades he'll be losing. He'll beat whatever bad guy he faces in the end because that's what always happens. Whether he beats them with some new power or with his existing powers is irrelavent because the outcome will still be the same.

That's why I was never a believer in the necessasity or super heroes to become more and more powerful. The heroes will win anyways, so it really doesn't matter. Sam having an on-going book will get him where he needs to go. It's just a matter of whether or not that book can keep from getting cancelled... that's the hard part.

I agree with this aswell.

The stories will dictate how successful Falcon is as a hero. The fans will decide if they will get to keep seeing those successes.

[Holt]

With No Surrender I am hoping Marvel doesn't Monica Rambeau him and make Sam out to be a poor leader to justify his incarnation of the Avengers disbanding and being replaced.

[DragonsChi]

I thought Sam was still slated to lead a team of Avengers during Legacy?

[Digifiend]

Sadly, that could happen. He's already exhibited confidence issues, feeling doubt about his ability to lead without the shield. Jane had to set him right.

The stories will dictate how successful Falcon is as a hero. The fans will decide if they will get to keep seeing those successes.

Yeah, can Sam sustain his book without the Captain America brand? Time will tell. He was already getting close to cancellation levels before he gave up the shield.

[XPac]

I thought Sam was still slated to lead a team of Avengers during Legacy?

Yeah, I'm kind of assuming Sam will lead until Steve is ready to come back.

[Digifiend]

He'll still be leading during No Surrender... and Steve will be back on the combined team as well then (though I guess he'll mostly work with Rogue's team).

[XPac]

He'll still be leading during No Surrender... and Steve will be back on the combined team as well then (though I guess he'll mostly work with Rogue's team).

If I had to guess, I'd say the end goal of all of this (which will likely be around the time of the Infinity movie) will be for Steve to lead a classic Avengers team with him and the REAL Thor and the REAL Iron Man, while Sam will lead an Avengers team consisting of some of the newer versions like Jane and Iron Heart. The Avengers and the New Avengers.

[DragonsChi]

If I had to guess, I'd say the end goal of all of this (which will likely be around the time of the Infinity movie) will be for Steve to lead a classic Avengers team with him and the REAL Thor and the REAL Iron Man, while Sam will lead an Avengers team consisting of some of the newer versions like Jane and Iron Heart. The Avengers and the New Avengers.

Hopefully, it will be more of a mix and match type deal. Where Steve gets Thor and IronHeart, while Sam get Jane and Ironman. Mixing up old and new Avengers on both teams. That way Old Gen readers and New Gen readers will have a reason to pick up or at the very lease consider both titles.

In the long run it would be a much smarter play for Marvel.

[leo619]

Eh...I get what your saying but if Sam stays on track he is looking to be on the same level as Steve in terms of leadership. He was already established as the Best Arial Combatant in the MU way back in the early days. All he needs now is just to be elevated some more as a combatant in general. Which I feel is coming.

That's not really saying much about being the best aerial combatant seeing as there isn't many aerial combatants that isn't below 25 ton lifters lol. So we'll see if that can transition into something that fits more lower powered characters.

He just needs his own stories for that. If he gets his own book, he'll beat bad guys and he'll do that with or without upgrades. It's not like if he doesn't get upgrades he'll be losing. He'll beat whatever bad guy he faces in the end because that's what always happens. Whether he beats them with some new power or with his existing powers is irrelavent because the outcome will still be the same.

That's why I was never a believer in the necessasity or super heroes to become more and more powerful. The heroes will win anyways, so it really doesn't matter. Sam having an on-going book will get him where he needs to go. It's just a matter of whether or not that book can keep from getting cancelled... that's the hard part.

But that's not fully true and that's why I brought up the Remender stories. Even though Falcon has decades of experience, under Remender's pen he was being treated like a rookie, constantly being saved by someone else. While the heroes always win, that didn't me he won. During the beginning stages, it was someone else who won, and that's because writers at the time frame still viewed him as lower class.

Now with the elevation that Spencer has done with Falcon's time as captain america, Falcon may have been given a little more prestige. But there's no guarantee that the "falcon" himself would be considered the threat he deserves to be going forward. Ultimately, we will have to see with the upcoming book.

But yes, I do agree that him going back to Falcon will probably be his most difficult challenge yet sales wise. While I want it to succeed, I'm definitely not optimistic.

[Digifiend]

If I had to guess, I'd say the end goal of all of this (which will likely be around the time of the Infinity movie) will be for Steve to lead a classic Avengers team with him and the REAL Thor and the REAL Iron Man, while Sam will lead an Avengers team consisting of some of the newer versions like Jane and Iron Heart. The Avengers and the New Avengers.

Good guess - Legacy #1 did seem to hint at Ironheart joining the team.

DragonsChi, if Riri does join the Avengers, I'm sure it'll be alongside both Sam and Jane, there'll be a reason why they paired her up with those two.

[leo619]

If I had to guess, I'd say the end goal of all of this (which will likely be around the time of the Infinity movie) will be for Steve to lead a classic Avengers team with him and the REAL Thor and the REAL Iron Man, while Sam will lead an Avengers team consisting of some of the newer versions like Jane and Iron Heart. The Avengers and the New Avengers.

And we're really going with this "Real" crap? Seriously now? There is not "real" anything except for what Marvel publishes. That's what's "real". And right now, Jane and Iron Heart are a Real Thor and Real Iron Man, just like how Odinson is the Real Thor and when Tony comes back, he will also be a "Real Iron Man."

[DragonsChi]

Good guess - Legacy #1 did seem to hint at Ironheart joining the team.

DragonsChi, if Riri does join the Avengers, I'm sure it'll be alongside both Sam and Jane, there'll be a reason why they paired her up with those two.

Probably right. But it be better for all the characters involved if some mixing and matching was done. At least for longer term success. IMO

[XPac]

And we're really going with this "Real" crap? Seriously now? There is not "real" anything except for what Marvel publishes. That's what's "real". And right now, Jane and Iron Heart are a Real Thor and Real Iron Man, just like how Odinson is the Real Thor and when Tony comes back, he will also be a "Real Iron Man."

Thor isn't a code name... it's Thor's actual name. Jane going around calling herself Thor is like Sam going around calling himself "Steve" after Steve retired. Steve is still Steve, regardless of whether or not he's Captain America and Odinson should still be Thor regardless of whether he wields the hammer.