I think that, MAYBE, the JGS should've associated with SHIELD, after AvX (READ FIRST)

[Nipower888]

Also, please don't mention white supremacy being a problem, as if any other ethnic group wouldn't have a bias towards its own. It's merely human nature; doesn't make it right tho.

No it's not. What's wrong with you? White supremacy is a big problem. I'm done. I can't do this.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

then eye for an eye isn't related to black/white issues because there's no eye for an eye. Black people needed to fight back. We shouldnt accept non being treated like equals because they outnumber us. That respectable politics BS. No one set aside differences. Black people fought back and decent white people helped. Nothing was compromised.

Wow. Agree to disagree. If you can't see that obvious facts, that both sides made compromises, and that both sides were absolutely necessary for success, then there's no point to this.

If this ever does happen, then you can be a NXS supporter. I'll admit, I lean more towards the JGS/Unity side, but, seemingly unlike you, I can see BOTH the pros, and cons. You keep going on about fighting, and riots, being good, with so much anger, as if there are NO cons to your view either. I've already agreed that black people fought for their freedom, but they didn't succeed by condemning the whole of the people they were fighting against, nor was it the riots that helped the most (as white can riot too); they also needed help from white people, as they fought them.

Agree to disagree, I guess. :/

[Nipower888]

Wow. Agree to disagree. If you can't see that obvious facts, that both sides made compromises, and that both sides were absolutely necessary for success, then there's no point to this.

If this ever does happen, then you can be a NXS supporter. I'll admit, I lean more towards the JGS/Unity side, but, seemingly unlike you, I can see BOTH the pros, and cons. You keep going on about fighting, and riots, being good, with so much anger, as if there are NO cons to your view either. I've already agreed that black people fought for their freedom, but they didn't succeed by condemning the whole of the people they were fighting against, nor was it the riots that helped the most (as white can riot too); they also needed help from white people, as they fought them.

Agree to disagree, I guess. :/

I understand your points and kinda agreed with them but then you said don't say white supremacy isn't a problem so yeah. I don't care what you say anymore.

[Darth Phoenix]

Yes, so why don't they just enslave us again now to make their job easier? If the govt really sees that equal liberties, and rights, as an obstacle why don't they just amend the Constitution .

They have in many ways and will do more as time moves on.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

No it's not. What's wrong with you? White supremacy is a big problem. I'm done. I can't do this.

No, no, I said don't talk about it as if it's not something that goes on JUST for white people, or just with race. Religious supremacy has also been a problem in several places, and if you go to Mexico you'll see Mexican supremacy. It's something that we humans do. I never said it wasn't a problem, in fact I said it was and that it is wrong. You act like black people wouldn't favor themselves just cuz, like every other ethnic group does? We have plenty of black people who voted for Obama JUST because he was black, and did so even after his first tenure as president; not even paying much attention to his policies.

Please, don't misconstrue my words.

[Agent Z]

You know, why hasn't anyone actually taken down SHIELD yet? They clearly do more bad than good.

Is it because they can't portray Hill as a villain?

Because as bad as SHIELD can be, they are still better than whatever alternative you can think of. The last time it was decided they were obsolete we got the brilliant decision to trust Norman Osborn with America's security.

[Nipower888]

No, no, I said don't talk about it as if it's not something that goes on JUST for white people, or just with race. Religious supremacy has also been a problem in several places, and if you go to Mexico you'll see Mexican supremacy. It's something that we humans do. I never said it wasn't a problem, in fact I said it was and that it is wrong. You act like black people wouldn't favor themselves just cuz, like every other ethnic group does? We have plenty of black people who voted for Obama JUST because he was black, and did so even after his first tenure as president; not even paying much attention to his policies.

Please, don't misconstrue my words.

None of those are comparable to white supremacy.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

They have in many ways and will do more as time moves on.

No, I mean why not just do it in a way wear we can't let our voices be heard. It'd be much easier if it was illegal for us to do anything we wanted, right?

I never said it was perfect, it's far from it (as I've mentioned even before I began this debate with you), but I'm not gonna act like it's the same as it was before the civil rights movements, or 200 years ago.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

None of those are comparable to white supremacy.

"White supremacy or white supremacism is a form of racism centered upon the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior in certain characteristics, traits, and attributes to people of other racial backgrounds and that therefore whites should politically, economically and socially rule non-whites."

Yes, white people have gone beyond the pale with it, but that is something any ethnic group believes about itself compared to other ethnic groups. If you go to the middle east, are you gonna be just as successful there as you could be here? What about you go to Japan, or China. Or Mexico? Or Russia?

What if black supremacy was a problem? Or latino supremacy? Or any other supremacy? Would it be fine, as long as it's not white supremacy? I'm a proponent of no supremacy, of any kind. White supremacy is a problem, and they've had the means to the most with it, but supremacy is a problem in general.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

As heated as this has gotten, I love debates like this!

This is the type of stuff that has sprouted from Hickman's story (a debate on morality), and these are the kind of that make for a good story IMO.

[Alex.]

The eye for an eye analogy is meant that violence begets more violence, and the violence only permeates because people put their selfish feelings first. White supremacy is a problem? Sure, but that's something we gotta deal with until minorities eventually out number them in the US. Riots don't help ANYONE, only peaceful protests do. Yes, you gotta take your freedom, but violence isn't always necessary.

Black people took their freedom? Yes they did. Did white people help them in that regard? Yes they did. Are two groups putting aside their differences, and preferences, for a greater good a compromise? Yes it is.

I'll answer later that quote you did, but first I have to say this. Riots do help changing things. Say hello to French Revolution and, closer to our times, Stonewall Riots (for gays).

And the thing is: outnumbering some group doens't mean you'll get to run something. What is important, in our world, is who has power, who has money. Think about south africa.

[Nipower888]

"White supremacy or white supremacism is a form of racism centered upon the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior in certain characteristics, traits, and attributes to people of other racial backgrounds and that therefore whites should politically, economically and socially rule non-whites."

Yes, white people have gone beyond the pale with it, but that is something any ethnic group believes about itself compared to other ethnic groups. If you go to the middle east, are you gonna be just as successful there as you could be here? What about you go to Japan, or China. Or Mexico? Or Russia?

What if black supremacy was a problem? Or latino supremacy? Or any other supremacy? Would it be fine, as long as it's not white supremacy? I'm a proponent of no supremacy, of any kind. White supremacy is a problem, and they've had the means to the most with it, but supremacy is a problem in general.

First national pride is completely different from race pride. But if it gets anywhere near white supremacy it's awful and should be shutdown. White supremacy is a problem because it is global. No supremacy is acceptable but I'm talking about white supremacy so so other one should be brought up. It has basically made up a social class just to tell everyone that is not apart of that class we are better than you. You are inferior. It has affected people all over the world. It's ruined a continent. Nothing is comparable. Honestly I'm really not into debating this. Today really isn't my day.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

First national pride is completely different from race pride. But if it gets anywhere near white supremacy it's awful and should be shutdown. White supremacy is a problem because it is global. No supremacy is acceptable but I'm talking about white supremacy so so other one should be brought up. It has basically made up a social class just to tell everyone that is not apart of that class we are better than you. You are inferior. It has affected people all over the world. It's ruined a continent. Nothing is comparable. Honestly I'm really not into debating this. Today really isn't my day.

Fine, I agree with you. However, I agree, think we should go back off this topic. It's better to focus on the X-Men here, and reference if we need to.

[king of hybrids]

SHIELD can barely keep the Avengers on side; and their usually on the same page.

not to mention the fact that its telling that; logan, rogue or the frat boys aside; its tended to be the NXS X-Men who most of the other heroes team-up with, while storm, beast and kitty bitched and bitched and bitched about blue team and avengers alike

Doubtful considering that Maria Hill didn't hold any of the JGS that sided with Cyclops accountable. It's also no secret that Rachel still supports her "fugitive" father and openly defends him, she even knew where the NXS was and didn't inform SHIELD at all.

Everyone except SHIELD knew where the NXS was. if the hulk, logan and guardians knew then odds are carol and sam know; and by extension Herr Rogers knows. its a worse kept secret than daredevil's ID or scott and logans UST

evidently the grand post-siege reconciliation between SHIELD and Avengers doesn't extend to letting them know that nugget of intel

[primetime21]

The idea is not bad. There does need to be some distinction between teams and philosophies etc. S.H.I.E.L.D being involved leaves a bit of a sour taste I think. Couldn't we just use another agency... like going back in the day a pulling out O.N.E and Valerie Cooper. Especially if Havok and some others are at JGS then having a government agency's support and given the track record of working with mutants before but still not always necessarily trusting them would be an interesting premise. I would also bring back Storm's X.S.E from Xtreme Xmen and have them as the government backed official agency for handling mutant matters. Cyclops' revolutionary side could see this as excessive mettling on the gov't part.

I guess the idea of mutant registration could come into play in dealing with the O.N.E or even S.H.I.E.L.D but I really can't see a whole faction of the Xmen going along with that. Perhaps there could be some agents or traitors if you will in the mix that would secretly feed that type of information to the govt in an exchange type deal for concessions. But really a faction being for mutant registration and one being against it is just Civil War all over again. In fact I think its what Civil War should have been about or really it should have been the premise for AVX.