NEWSARAMA: Top 10 Wonder Woman Villains of All Time

[Stone Cold]

Ocean Master was a glass cannon. He took down the League with a powerful magical artifact and then lost when Aquaman was able to get it away from him.

Cheetah is a speedster, just like Flash. Speedsters get their powers portrayed erratically ALL THE TIME. From Flash on down, every speedster goes through this, or else speedsters would be literally unbeatable by anyone who doesn't also have superspeed.

Cheetah's debut was as a Justice League level threat. That was Johns announcing to the comic book world "This is New 52 Cheetah! This is how powerful she is!" She was only portrayed as weaker the other two times because two other writers either never read those issues or read them and said "Eff that! Steve Trevor can beat her singlehanded."

That's called bad writing. Nothing else.

Ocean master is far from glass canon, he is Atlantans that means he has super durability which allows him to survive blows from class 100 characters. His magical lightening took down superman and Wonder Woman but Aquaman tanked it.


If that's your explanation of how cheetah was of able to hit flash then that makes her PIS showing even less credible. Characters were nerfed to make cheetah credible threat.

It doesn't matter what came first, what really matters is consistency, cheetah being taken down by street level characters is far more common then her being as fast flash.

[Outside_85]

And what would happen to Circe if she General Zod, Mongul, or Darkseid took Luthor's spot?

Good argument for why Luthor/Joker/Cheetah are 2nd rank as villains

[Dr. Poison]

Good argument for why Luthor/Joker/Cheetah are 2nd rank as villains

Just because a character isn't a god, alien despot, or witch from Greek myth doesn't make them 2nd rank. They're just different, that's all.

[Stone Cold]

Just because a character isn't a god, alien despot, or witch from Greek myth doesn't make them 2nd rank. They're just different, that's all.

If they are goofy looking and non-threatening then that is a problem.

[Vanguard-01]

Ocean master is far from glass canon, he is Atlantans that means he has super durability which allows him to survive blows from class 100 characters. His magical lightening took down superman and Wonder Woman but Aquaman tanked it.

Aquaman tanked it because superheroes frequently get temporary power boosts at dramatically appropriate times. It can also be explained that the artifact simply recognized Aquaman as it's rightful owner, and thus didn't strike him as hard as it struck Superman and Wonder Woman. Oh, and by the way? Supes and Diana were only unconscious for a matter of minutes, at best. That's not exactly a definitive defeat.

Yes, Ocean Master, without the trident, has the same strength and toughness as any other Atlantean. Without the trident, he would've quickly been overwhelmed and defeated by the League. He only won thanks to the trident. Once the trident was out of play? Then it was just another fight between two Atlantean warriors. And Aquaman is the greatest Atlantean warrior of them all.

If that's your explanation of how cheetah was of able to hit flash then that makes her PIS showing even less credible. Characters were nerfed to make cheetah credible threat.

Nope. No nerfing.

Cheetah had several advantages in that fight.

1.) She knew the League was coming.
2.) She chose to fight in terrain she knew very well.
3.) She had the element of surprise on her side. She didn't walk up to the League and challenge them to fight her. She ambushed them and took out two of their most powerful players in a matter of seconds.

She was powerful AND she fought smart. In a slightly different battle? The League would probably do better against Cheetah. No PIS was needed. Cheetah did so well because she used her power and a very effective strategy. And? Another important fact is that Cheetah didn't even want to win that fight. She WANTED the League to capture her. It was part of the plan for Forever Evil.

It doesn't matter what came first, what really matters is consistency, cheetah being taken down by street level characters is far more common then her being as fast flash.

Because a bunch of writers don't want to show her the respect she deserves as one of Wonder Woman's deadliest foes, and because Editorial tends to be asleep at the wheel whenever it comes time to insure the integrity of Wonder Woman's villains.

The "consistency" is that writers don't WANT to treat the character with the same respect that they treat the Joker or Lex Luthor and Editorial doesn't seem to care enough to correct them.

[Stone Cold]

Aquaman tanked it because superheroes frequently get temporary power boosts at dramatically appropriate times. It can also be explained that the artifact simply recognized Aquaman as it's rightful owner, and thus didn't strike him as hard as it struck Superman and Wonder Woman. Oh, and by the way? Supes and Diana were only unconscious for a matter of minutes, at best. That's not exactly a definitive defeat.

Yes, Ocean Master, without the trident, has the same strength and toughness as any other Atlantean. Without the trident, he would've quickly been overwhelmed and defeated by the League. He only won thanks to the trident. Once the trident was out of play? Then it was just another fight between two Atlantean warriors. And Aquaman is the greatest Atlantean warrior of them all.



Nope. No nerfing.

Cheetah had several advantages in that fight.

1.) She knew the League was coming.
2.) She chose to fight in terrain she knew very well.
3.) She had the element of surprise on her side. She didn't walk up to the League and challenge them to fight her. She ambushed them and took out two of their most powerful players in a matter of seconds.

She was powerful AND she fought smart. In a slightly different battle? The League would probably do better against Cheetah. No PIS was needed. Cheetah did so well because she used her power and a very effective strategy. And? Another important fact is that Cheetah didn't even want to win that fight. She WANTED the League to capture her. It was part of the plan for Forever Evil.



Because a bunch of writers don't want to show her the respect she deserves as one of Wonder Woman's deadliest foes, and because Editorial tends to be asleep at the wheel whenever it comes time to insure the integrity of Wonder Woman's villains.

The "consistency" is that writers don't WANT to treat the character with the same respect that they treat the Joker or Lex Luthor and Editorial doesn't seem to care enough to correct them.

Ocean master did far more damage to the league but you do not consider him a viable threat? He actually knocked out class 100 characters something cheetah failed to do. What evidence is there to say cheetah did not receive temporary amp to fight the league?

In a straight up fight cheetah would get living soul beaten out of her by superman, Wonder Woman or Flash. Cheetah has 0 durability feats to suggest she can take more than on hit from these characters yet you think she is somehow powerful enough to take on league.


1. So what if she knew league was coming?
2. Terrain did not give her any advantage, PIS did.
3. Batman saw her coming before she got to him. No matter how you look at it, it is quite clear characters were nerfed to make cheetah look good just like ocean master was made to be unstoppable.

The thing is cheetah isn't more powerful than flash. She doesn't have feats to suggest she is even as fast as Bart Allen. Her villains month issue did not show her using super-speed. It looked like spider-man level character slashing and killing humans.

It has nothing to do with writers not showing her respect and editorial being asleep. When she is constantly taken down street level characters then that is exactly where she belongs. There is more evidence to say that cheetah was amped and league was nether in JL story than writers not showing her respect.

[Agent Z]

If they are goofy looking and non-threatening then that is a problem.

I don't see anything particularly threatening about Luthor. Hell, even the Joker doesn't look scary under some artists.

[Agent Z]

Ocean master did far more damage to the league but you do not consider him a viable threat? He actually knocked out class 100 characters something cheetah failed to do. What evidence is there to say cheetah did not receive temporary amp to fight the league?

In a straight up fight cheetah would get living soul beaten out of her by superman, Wonder Woman or Flash. Cheetah has 0 durability feats to suggest she can take more than on hit from these characters yet you think she is somehow powerful enough to take on league.


1. So what if she knew league was coming?
2. Terrain did not give her any advantage, PIS did.
3. Batman saw her coming before she got to him. No matter how you look at it, it is quite clear characters were nerfed to make cheetah look good just like ocean master was made to be unstoppable.

The thing is cheetah isn't more powerful than flash. She doesn't have feats to suggest she is even as fast as Bart Allen. Her villains month issue did not show her using super-speed. It looked like spider-man level character slashing and killing humans.

It has nothing to do with writers not showing her respect and editorial being asleep. When she is constantly taken down street level characters then that is exactly where she belongs. There is more evidence to say that cheetah was amped and league was nether in JL story than writers not showing her respect.

1. It meant she was ready for them.
2. PIS is Batman kicking WW in the stomach when it has been established he has no super powers. Cheetah was established as being super fast. End of story.
3. So now you're saying Ocean Master was helped by PIS?
4. Every character has suffered from inconsistency when it comes to power and skill. Superman can be smart enough to absorb the knowledge from a book on medicine in mere minutes but will have the I.Q of a fish in other stories. Batman has outfought and outgambitted Darkseid yet some mental case in a clown suit constantly gives him trouble.

[Stone Cold]

I don't see anything particularly threatening about Luthor. Hell, even the Joker doesn't look scary under some artists.

That's the thing with luthor, he is not out there look tough and evil, he wants you to believe that he is good guy.

The things joker did in endgame and death if family are epitome of ugly and scary.

[Vanguard-01]

Ocean master did far more damage to the league but you do t consider him a viable threat? He actually knocked out class 100 characters something cheetah failed to do. What is it to say cheetah did not receive temporary amp to fight the league?

I was talking about Ocean Master alone, without the trident. With the trident, he's a threat to the League by himself. Without it? He's a strong, tough guy with some fighting skills. The League will make short work of him.

Cheetah no-sold a flying punch from Diana and turned SUPERMAN into her slave with one bite.

1. So what if she knew league was coming?

It....gives her time to prepare for them?

2. Terrain did not give her any advantage, PIS did.

Terrain did give her an advantage. She hid. She waited for the League to come to her. And then she attacked suddenly and without warning. Batman does the same thing all the time and he doesn't even need superspeed to make it work.

3. Batman saw her coming before she could get to him. No matter how you look at it, it is quite clear characters were nerfed to make cheetah look good just like ocean master was made to be unstoppable.

Batman saw her coming? And? Did Cheetah have a blurry aura around her as she attacked him? Was anything done to suggest that Cheetah was using her superspeed against a man she knows isn't a speedster? Powered villains underestimate Batman. ALL the time. There's no reason to assume she even attempted to speed blitz him.

That's not nerfing anybody. It's not PIS. It's a writer giving a villain a good strategy that worked very well for her. If she ever does quite so well against the League on an open battlefield when they see her coming from a mile away? Now THAT will be PIS/nerfing.

The thing is cheetah isn't more powerful than flash.

Did anyone SAY she was? I know I didn't.

She doesn't have feats to suggest she is even as fast as Bart Allen. Her villains month issue did not show her using super-speed. It looked like spider-man level character slashing and killing humans.

Because she was fighting HUMANS. You don't need superspeed to kill humans.

She has superspeed. The mere fact that she was able to bite Superman AND the Flash in the same battle is proof that she has superspeed. Otherwise, even the element of surprise would've failed her because Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman would've seen her approach in slow motion long before she ever reached them.

She has always had superspeed. This is not even up for debate.

It has nothing to do with writers not showing her respect and editorial being asleep. When she is constantly taken down street level characters then that is exactly where she belongs. There is more evidence to say that cheetah was amped and league was nether in JL story than writers not showing her respect.

Nope. When she is constantly taken down by street level characters, that means that a bunch of writers don't want to write her properly, or haven't bothered to research her to understand how to writer her properly.

DC's top writer thinks she should be a Justice League level threat. It's not his fault if Editorial and a bunch of other writers don't agree.

Hopefully, with Johns' newfound respect for Diana and her villains, he will use Cheetah (and hopefully some more of Diana's classic rogues) more frequently and will continue to show just how much potential they really have.

Before Johns got his hands on him, Sinestro was a joke. Johns fixed that. He can do the same with Cheetah, Queen Clea, or just about any other villain you name.

[Stone Cold]

I was talking about Ocean Master alone, without the trident. With the trident, he's a threat to the League by himself. Without it? He's a strong, tough guy with some fighting skills. The League will make short work of him.

Cheetah no-sold a flying punch from Diana and turned SUPERMAN into her slave with one bite.



It....gives her time to prepare for them?



Terrain did give her an advantage. She hid. She waited for the League to come to her. And then she attacked suddenly and without warning. Batman does the same thing all the time and he doesn't even need superspeed to make it work.



Batman saw her coming? And? Did Cheetah have a blurry aura around her as she attacked him? Was anything done to suggest that Cheetah was using her superspeed against a man she knows isn't a speedster? Powered villains underestimate Batman. ALL the time. There's no reason to assume she even attempted to speed blitz him.

That's not nerfing anybody. It's not PIS. It's a writer giving a villain a good strategy that worked very well for her. If she ever does quite so well against the League on an open battlefield when they see her coming from a mile away? Now THAT will be PIS/nerfing.



Did anyone SAY she was? I know I didn't.



Because she was fighting HUMANS. You don't need superspeed to kill humans.

She has superspeed. The mere fact that she was able to bite Superman AND the Flash in the same battle is proof that she has superspeed. Otherwise, even the element of surprise would've failed her because Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman would've seen her approach in slow motion long before she ever reached them.

She has always had superspeed. This is not even up for debate.



Nope. When she is constantly taken down by street level characters, that means that a bunch of writers don't want to write her properly, or haven't bothered to research her to understand how to writer her properly.

DC's top writer thinks she should be a Justice League level threat. It's not his fault if Editorial and a bunch of other writers don't agree.

Hopefully, with Johns' newfound respect for Diana and her villains, he will use Cheetah (and hopefully some more of Diana's classic rogues) more frequently and will continue to show just how much potential they really have.

Before Johns got his hands on him, Sinestro was a joke. Johns fixed that. He can do the same with Cheetah, Queen Clea, or just about any other villain you name.

When Aquaman fought ocean master he had trident, he did not throw away his trident to fight Aquaman. Aquaman tanked same lightning blasts that took down Wonder Woman and superman does that mean Aquaman is more powerful than Wonder Woman and superman?

1. There was nothing in comic to suggest she prepared for them

2. Terrain did not give her advantage because they saw her before she could she attacked any of them. Batman was the first to see her, flash saw her coming towards him and he had plenty of time react but writer nerfed him for story. Cyborg saw her and fired his cannon but she jumped over blast and attack superman who was standing like statue.

3. Speedsters use their speed all the time even when they are dealing with average humans. Best example of it would be johnny who turned guards to skeleton using his super speed. Flash engaged her second time and he was hit again despite having femtosecond reaction time.

She does have super-speed but she is no where as fast as flash or superman. They have feats to suggest that they are faster than her but the writer nerfed them to make cheetah look good.

DC's top editor dan didio suggested green arrow comic when he was asked about cheetah. Johns writing her league level threat doesn't actually make her one when 90% of time she is written to be taken down street level characters.


If a character is beaten by street level characters 90% of time then that's not PIS.

[Outside_85]

Just because a character isn't a god, alien despot, or witch from Greek myth doesn't make them 2nd rank. They're just different, that's all.

Eh no, Circe and Ares would have Barbara's pelt in front of their fireplace by the evening after a noon confrontation.

[Vanguard-01]

When Aquaman fought ocean master he had trident, he did not throw away his trident to fight Aquaman. Aquaman tanked same lightning blasts that took down Wonder Woman and superman does that mean Aquaman is more powerful than Wonder Woman and superman?

Ocean Master didn't throw away the trident. For some reason, the trident, which was his big advantage, didn't work on Aquaman as well as it did on the other Leaguers. I always viewed that as a sign that the trident somehow recognized Arthur as its rightful owner and couldn't harm him the way it had the rest of the League.

The bottom line is Ocean Master took down the League with a powerful weapon. Arthur beat him because that weapon didn't work as well on him. The advantage of the trident was negated in their fight.

1. There was nothing in comic to suggest she prepared for them

She knew they were coming after her, and she lured them onto territory she knew very well and prepared an ambush and an attack strategy for them. Batman does this all the time.

2. Terrain did not give her advantage because they saw her before she could she attacked any of them. Batman was the first to see her, flash saw her coming towards him and he had plenty of time react but writer nerfed him for story. Cyborg saw her and fired his cannon but she jumped over blast and attack superman who was standing like statue.

I just re-read the fight. Batman sensed her movement. He turned around just in time to yell a warning before he got slashed. Cheetah continued on and hit Flash and Superman in practically the same move. The terrain allowed her to get close enough to attack before the League could respond to her in enough time to stop her from striking three of their people in one attack.

3. Speedsters use their speed all the time even when they are dealing with average humans. Best example of it would be johnny who turned guards to skeleton using his super speed. Flash engaged her second time and he was hit again despite having femtosecond reaction time.

First? That "femtosecond reaction time" stuff is nonsense. A femtosecond is so impossibly tiny that if Flash really had that kind of reaction speed, it would be completely impossible for anyone to EVER touch him.

Second? Not all speedsters fight the same way. Cheetah is a very visceral and sensual killer. She's in no rush to end her fun, unless there's a need to. She could easily hold back her speed if she wanted to really enjoy killing those people.

Third? She was still clearly using enough of her speed that they were completely helpless against her.

She does have super-speed but she is no where as fast as flash or superman. They have feats to suggest that they are faster than her but the writer nerfed them to make cheetah look good.

Cheetah has feats of being able to slash the throat of a woman who can swat bullets out of mid air. Thanks to this fight, she now has feats of being able to tag speedsters as fast as Superman and Flash.

DC's top editor dan didio suggested green arrow comic when he was asked about cheetah. Johns writing her league level threat doesn't actually make her one when 90% of time she is written to be taken down street level characters.

1.) Didio is a known troll who LOVES to piss off fans.
2.) She only gets taken down by street level people 90% of the time because 90% of the time, she gets written by writers who think it's funny to have one of Diana's deadliest foes go down like a sack of crap to someone vastly below Diana's level. It's insulting to Cheetah, and it's insulting to Diana, because it makes her look weak every time she has trouble fighting Cheetah.

Why do people have so much trouble understanding why Wonder Woman is supposed to be powerful? Because her villains frequently get used as punching bags for lesser heroes that the writer happens to like more than Diana. Why have Diana's rogues failed to achieve the same legendary status as Batman's and Superman's? Because Batman's rogues and Superman's rogues had their capabilities increased as Superman and Batman's capabilities increased. The original Joker would've been a joke against modern Batman. Golden Age Lex Luthor would've done nothing against Superman today. Diana? Her rogues emphatically did NOT get upgraded every time she did. By the end of the pre-Flashpoint universe, many of her rogues flat-out couldn't touch her any longer.

How do you raise Diana's profile? By raising her villains' profiles. A hero is only as great as the villains he/she fights. Geoff Johns clearly wants to raise Cheetah's profile to the point where Cheetah can be considered one of the biggest baddies in the DCU. Other writers seem determined to keep Cheetah, and by extension Diana, down at the lower levels because it lets them glorify other heroes about which they care more.

I know who I support in this matter.

[Amazon Swordsman]

This person IMO did a great job summarizing WW's rogues and their arch nemesis potential. I agree with most of what was said, but you all can look at it here: http://modernzox.blogspot.com/2010/0...der-woman.html

[Dr. Poison]

Eh no, Circe and Ares would have Barbara's pelt in front of their fireplace by the evening after a noon confrontation.

I've never argued that Cheetah was more powerful than those two. Do you think the Joker is less of a villain because he's not as powerful as those two as well?