Taking It To The Streets: Why Do You Like Marvel's Street-Level Characters?

[Tien Long]

Hey all. This has been a questioning I've been entertaining for a while and I would lover to hear your input. With the launch of the new Defenders title, and the subject a constant topic here on the boards, I thought the moment was right to ask why you are a fan of Marvel's street-level characters?

For me, Marvel's street-level characters are appealing on a number of levels. As a huge fan of the martial arts, I like how a majority of these characters rely on their fighting skills. On a surface level, this makes for some great action. Iron Fist or Shang-Chi taking out a bunch of Hydra agents and Hand ninjas with dynamic Kung Fu kicks and punches is just really cool. At the same time, the martial arts has deeper qualities. There's an intimacy with hand-to-hand combat. Rather than shooting a laser beam or cosmic blast from several yards away, Daredevil or Luke Cage usually have to get pretty up close and personal to take down their opponents.

Also, there is a sense of the attainable and realistic with street level characters. I don't have the x-gene or was not born on another planet. However, by training really hard, hey I could become a master of Kung Fu. And while I may be pushing it, yeah, I could learn how to use weapons like sais, billy clubs, moon darts, and semi-automatic weapons as well.

The other reason why I like street level characters is the setting. Though street level characters could find themselves on other planets or in other dimensions, they are usually found on city blocks, alleyways, parks, factories, etc. As a someone who grew up a couple of miles outside of NYC, I can't help but think about the city whenever I read these characters. Walking on Broadway to midtown, strolling on a Chinatown street or the Westside Highway at night, watching the Manhattan skyline come into view while driving on the GWB, I have a lot of fond memories of NYC. They come into focus as I read about Daredevil slugging it out with Kingpin or the Punisher meting justice to a bunch of mobsters.

(Now, before anyone mentions this out, yes, I'm fully aware that REAL street crimes can touch on complicated issues relating to socioeconomic and racial issues. Punching out gang members and junkies shouldn't be the first option when dealing with problems related to the streets. Hopefully, people can come up with more peaceful and civil ways of dealing with these issues. But I digress...)

Those are my reasons for when I like taking it to the streets. How about yours?

[Sutekh]

I like martial arts. I like a sense of challenge, where even a thug with a gun can hurt the 'hero' if he gets arrogant or isn't on his game. I love acrobatic characters, like Daredevil or DC's Nightwing. (And superhumanly acrobatic characters, like Spider-Man or Nightcrawler or DC's Timber Wolf, as well!)

I also love the vast cosmic wonder of some of the old Thor and Fantastic Four comics, and some of my favorite characters are cosmic level butt-kickers like Moondragon or Sersi, or literal gods like Thor or Snowbird, but lower-powered characters like Iron Fist or Captain America or Misty Knight often feel more like they have to 'work for a living' compared to the guys who live in mansions (or their own personal dimensions) and can fly around the world. The risks feel more real, and the story feels more 'grounded' when a nut with a gun is a threat, and the setting is something as down to earth as a warehouse or apartment building or alley, than if the enemy was a mad eternal with an infinity McGuffin and the setting was another dimension full of Ditko-esque grandeur and Kirby dots.

If things get dire for the street level hero, a mutant healer isn't going to save them, nobody is going to 'go Binary,' Reed isn't going to use a disposable lighter, six paperclips and some gum he found on the bottom of his shoe to McGuyver up a portal that sends the bad-guys to the Negative Zone, and a rainbow bridge isn't going to smash down and disgorge a hundred Asgardian warriors to even the odds. Shang-Chi, Paladin, Silver Sable, whoever, is just going to have to wipe the blood off their face, crack their knuckles (or reload their gun) and get things done.

[SpiderClops]

Not the only reason but one of the big reasons why I like street level characters,

1. They are not sooo powerful that creating a believable threat is hard, or they have to be dumbed down so the not-really-threat looks like a real threat. The Flash.

2. But they're also not "human" that frankly ridiculous feats are given to them that in no way they should be able to do, but they do because they're sooo well trained and strategical/tactical geniuses. Just so they can look useful around some actually powerful characters. Batman.

They are the middle ground, usually consistently written characters.

[RLAAMJR.]

They're more real and there's a tough competition as to who is the best. Unlike DC characters, their street level characters can see and even catch villains who can move at speed of light.

[Agent Z]

I like martial arts. I like a sense of challenge, where even a thug with a gun can hurt the 'hero' if he gets arrogant or isn't on his game. I love acrobatic characters, like Daredevil or DC's Nightwing. (And superhumanly acrobatic characters, like Spider-Man or Nightcrawler or DC's Timber Wolf, as well!)

I also love the vast cosmic wonder of some of the old Thor and Fantastic Four comics, and some of my favorite characters are cosmic level butt-kickers like Moondragon or Sersi, or literal gods like Thor or Snowbird, but lower-powered characters like Iron Fist or Captain America or Misty Knight often feel more like they have to 'work for a living' compared to the guys who live in mansions (or their own personal dimensions) and can fly around the world. The risks feel more real, and the story feels more 'grounded' when a nut with a gun is a threat, and the setting is something as down to earth as a warehouse or apartment building or alley, than if the enemy was a mad eternal with an infinity McGuffin and the setting was another dimension full of Ditko-esque grandeur and Kirby dots.

If things get dire for the street level hero, a mutant healer isn't going to save them, nobody is going to 'go Binary,' Reed isn't going to use a disposable lighter, six paperclips and some gum he found on the bottom of his shoe to McGuyver up a portal that sends the bad-guys to the Negative Zone, and a rainbow bridge isn't going to smash down and disgorge a hundred Asgardian warriors to even the odds. Shang-Chi, Paladin, Silver Sable, whoever, is just going to have to wipe the blood off their face, crack their knuckles (or reload their gun) and get things done.

While I agree with most of this, Steve lives in a mansion too or at least a very expensive apartment. He also has an entire organisation or team he can call for help. Not sure he counts as street level

[Agent Z]

They're more real and there's a tough competition as to who is the best. Unlike DC characters, their street level characters can see and even catch villains who can move at speed of light.

As can Marvel's if the writers want it

[Grim Ghost]

My interest in the street level heroes has gone down a bit. I really liked when characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil were a bit mysterious, even to the rest of the superhero community. They were their own thing. Having them so heavily involved with Avengers/SHIELD/various other teams takes that feeling away from me quite a bit. Even the Punisher is on teams and involved in all of this nonsense at this point.

[marhawkman]

I dislike it when reading "Batgod" stories. Equally so when it's not actually Batman. fighting smart and using your head? sure, ok, that's nice, but it often gets taken to ridiculous extremes. Like one Superman issue where Superman is fighting some sort of cybernetic human who is strong enough to be a serious threat to Supes. Then Karate Lad from the Legion of Superheroes some how karate chops the guy's arm off.... The excuse was that he'd spotted a tiny weak point... um yeah, a weak point that let him completely remove the guy's arm? lol, no.

[chamber-music]

The ground street level setting allows writers to address some real world problems in a more direct way.

Street level heroes also tend to have a closer link to their environment as the place they are protecting is often their home. Saving the neighborhood you grown up and people you know add another dimension to the stories.

I like in the old Power Man and Iron Fist comics how Cage would get information by talking to people he knew in the neighborhood.

[Tien Long]

I like martial arts. I like a sense of challenge, where even a thug with a gun can hurt the 'hero' if he gets arrogant or isn't on his game. I love acrobatic characters, like Daredevil or DC's Nightwing. (And superhumanly acrobatic characters, like Spider-Man or Nightcrawler or DC's Timber Wolf, as well!)

Oh yeah, acrobatics is another reason why I'm a street-level fan. Seeing the agility and nimbleness of a character is quite awesome and there's no place better to do it than off of the playground that is a city. Also, as someone who was asthmatic as a kid and couldn't do a lot of physical things, I appreciated those characters who could.

I also love the vast cosmic wonder of some of the old Thor and Fantastic Four comics, and some of my favorite characters are cosmic level butt-kickers like Moondragon or Sersi, or literal gods like Thor or Snowbird, but lower-powered characters like Iron Fist or Captain America or Misty Knight often feel more like they have to 'work for a living' compared to the guys who live in mansions (or their own personal dimensions) and can fly around the world. The risks feel more real, and the story feels more 'grounded' when a nut with a gun is a threat, and the setting is something as down to earth as a warehouse or apartment building or alley, than if the enemy was a mad eternal with an infinity McGuffin and the setting was another dimension full of Ditko-esque grandeur and Kirby dots. If things get dire for the street level hero, a mutant healer isn't going to save them, nobody is going to 'go Binary,' Reed isn't going to use a disposable lighter, six paperclips and some gum he found on the bottom of his shoe to McGuyver up a portal that sends the bad-guys to the Negative Zone, and a rainbow bridge isn't going to smash down and disgorge a hundred Asgardian warriors to even the odds. Shang-Chi, Paladin, Silver Sable, whoever, is just going to have to wipe the blood off their face, crack their knuckles (or reload their gun) and get things done.

Here here. Nothing wrong with cosmic level or godlike characters. There's a magisterial aura around them, and that's pretty epic. At the same time, there's something to be said of that blue-collar, gritty, tough guy quality of the street level characters.

Not the only reason but one of the big reasons why I like street level characters,

1. They are not sooo powerful that creating a believable threat is hard, or they have to be dumbed down so the not-really-threat looks like a real threat. The Flash.

2. But they're also not "human" that frankly ridiculous feats are given to them that in no way they should be able to do, but they do because they're sooo well trained and strategical/tactical geniuses. Just so they can look useful around some actually powerful characters. Batman.

They are the middle ground, usually consistently written characters.

Ha, good point. It reminds me a lot of Batman's appearance in Batman vs. Superman. Him taking down an entire room of heavy armed and heavy trained goons was pretty badass. No normal individual could do that. At the same time though, he really didn't play that much of a part against Doomsday.

While I agree with most of this, Steve lives in a mansion too or at least a very expensive apartment. He also has an entire organisation or team he can call for help. Not sure he counts as street level

I dislike it when reading "Batgod" stories. Equally so when it's not actually Batman. fighting smart and using your head? sure, ok, that's nice, but it often gets taken to ridiculous extremes. Like one Superman issue where Superman is fighting some sort of cybernetic human who is strong enough to be a serious threat to Supes. Then Karate Lad from the Legion of Superheroes some how karate chops the guy's arm off.... The excuse was that he'd spotted a tiny weak point... um yeah, a weak point that let him completely remove the guy's arm? lol, no.

For me, characters like Captain America and Batman could fit in different levels. Yes, they could fight against the Kree or the parademons of Apokolips, but they could easily be found on the street. In one sense, they were born in it. Steve may have been a leader of the Avengers, but he was also that scrawny Irish kid from Brooklyn who enjoyed Dodgers games. I could imagine he'd be quite comfortable sitting on the stoop, sipping a Coke from a deli, and talking about baseball games with the rest of his neighbors. In another sense, it's a matter of territory. While Batman may be at the JLA base on the moon, he still has time to patrol the streets of Gotham and is very aware of gang activity. (Setting is what allows me to qualify Ghost Rider as a street level character. Yeah, he's an avenging angel with the powers of heaven and hell, but he usually rides on the city streets which at times can be infested with a couple of demons here and there ). And again, while Captain American and Batman are both heavily trained, all it takes is just one lucky bullet, heck, maybe even one well-trained punk with a lucky punch, to incapacitate them.

So, for me, aside from ability and power, upbringing and location dictate who is street level.

[Tien Long]

While I agree with most of this, Steve lives in a mansion too or at least a very expensive apartment. He also has an entire organisation or team he can call for help. Not sure he counts as street level

Yeah Steve has all of those extra things. What's great about Steve is that he knows how to utilize all of those resources. That gives me hope. As I mentioned previously, Steve was this scrawny kid from Brooklyn who became a leader of heroes. That's a very appealing idea, that this blue collar nobody from the streets could become a leader of heroes.

Still, at the same time, stripping away all of these resources would leave Steve with something relatively mundane. Peak human abilities and an unbreakable shield. Yeah, those are a hell of a lot better than what's available to the ordinary Joe, but as compared to Hulk level strength, the Power Cosmic, and telekinesis, they don't seem impressive.

But somehow Steve makes them work .

My interest in the street level heroes has gone down a bit. I really liked when characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil were a bit mysterious, even to the rest of the superhero community. They were their own thing. Having them so heavily involved with Avengers/SHIELD/various other teams takes that feeling away from me quite a bit. Even the Punisher is on teams and involved in all of this nonsense at this point.

I understand. Bendis broke a lot of unspoken rules by bringing someone like Spider-Man on to the Avengers. Spidey was a loner who accomplished remarkable feats alone. Moreover, he had a dubious rep around him. The same could be said of other characters like Daredevil or Punisher. Being on an Avengers team though could take that outsider aspect away.

Also, rereading Bendis' issues of the New Avengers a couple of weeks ago, I do wonder how a team that mainly has Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Spider-Woman, and Luke Cage be mighty enough to take down major threats. While they were able to do perform some awesome accomplishments, again that crew feels better suited to handle more street level things.

The ground street level setting allows writers to address some real world problems in a more direct way.

Street level heroes also tend to have a closer link to their environment as the place they are protecting is often their home. Saving the neighborhood you grown up and people you know add another dimension to the stories.

I like in the old Power Man and Iron Fist comics how Cage would get information by talking to people he knew in the neighborhood.

Yeah, exactly. Being close to the people, having them help out, aware of the issues that affect them, these are really great street level character aspects.

[Venomous Mask]

Ha, good point. It reminds me a lot of Batman's appearance in Batman vs. Superman. Him taking down an entire room of heavy armed and heavy trained goons was pretty badass. No normal individual could do that. At the same time though, he really didn't play that much of a part against Doomsday.

That scene was basically the Arkham games fight sequences put to film, which just made it all the more awesome. I didn't however like how cavalier Batman seemed when it came to killing people, especially with firearms; very out of character.

[Kuwagaton]

Well, aside from pretty rad costumes here and there:

Captain America - I love that he jumps into crowds of enemies as a one man wrecking machine. Yes he has the shield and the status and all that, but he's really just about his business. Judo and Boxing are a very underrated combo, together with his gymnastics, peak human abilities, quick wits, and relentless drive.

Daredevil - he has a pretty great power set in that it not only makes him a varied adventure character with sweet detective skills, but also comes with a double edge that he has to overcome. He's very vulnerable in a fight, but becomes a big dog when his back is against a wall.

Punisher - he's not the most talented, but he is the most driven. I'm not really a gun guy but I like that when Frank has to find another way, he absolutely will. I like that Marvel shows the very flawed side of his life choices, where DC makes Batman the smartest and most popular kid in school.

Iron Fist - basically pure unarmed combat and a talent in many styles. I think they should prop him up as the best fighter in the human weight class, it's not like that makes him unfair.

Wolverine - has massive equalizers in his claws and healing, but it's really about his meanness. He's basically a beehive people can't help but shake.

Cyclops - Judo, intensity, tactics, and concussive eye beams. I've always loved the character.

Black Widow - stylish and secretive. She's been around the biggest and most powerful, but still keeps an elegant aura.

Winter Soldier - like an enhanced Punisher. Super dangerous in all arenas.

Gambit - kinetic charging is such a great power, especially with the cards. Very agile and the staff is a great weapon.

[marhawkman]

Here here. Nothing wrong with cosmic level or godlike characters. There's a magisterial aura around them, and that's pretty epic. At the same time, there's something to be said of that blue-collar, gritty, tough guy quality of the street level characters.

Ha, good point. It reminds me a lot of Batman's appearance in Batman vs. Superman. Him taking down an entire room of heavy armed and heavy trained goons was pretty badass. No normal individual could do that. At the same time though, he really didn't play that much of a part against Doomsday.

For me, characters like Captain America and Batman could fit in different levels. Yes, they could fight against the Kree or the parademons of Apokolips, but they could easily be found on the street. In one sense, they were born in it. Steve may have been a leader of the Avengers, but he was also that scrawny Irish kid from Brooklyn who enjoyed Dodgers games. I could imagine he'd be quite comfortable sitting on the stoop, sipping a Coke from a deli, and talking about baseball games with the rest of his neighbors. In another sense, it's a matter of territory. While Batman may be at the JLA base on the moon, he still has time to patrol the streets of Gotham and is very aware of gang activity. (Setting is what allows me to qualify Ghost Rider as a street level character. Yeah, he's an avenging angel with the powers of heaven and hell, but he usually rides on the city streets which at times can be infested with a couple of demons here and there ). And again, while Captain American and Batman are both heavily trained, all it takes is just one lucky bullet, heck, maybe even one well-trained punk with a lucky punch, to incapacitate them.

So, for me, aside from ability and power, upbringing and location dictate who is street level.

It's kinda interesting to look at it from a point of view of the way people interact with others. Batman, despite not having powers, is often written in ways that make him very distant and having difficulty relating to others. In this way he's not as "down-to-earth" as some people with powers. Which of course makes him hard to relate to or understand as a reader.

[Tien Long]

Well, aside from pretty rad costumes here and there:

Captain America - I love that he jumps into crowds of enemies as a one man wrecking machine. Yes he has the shield and the status and all that, but he's really just about his business. Judo and Boxing are a very underrated combo, together with his gymnastics, peak human abilities, quick wits, and relentless drive.

Daredevil - he has a pretty great power set in that it not only makes him a varied adventure character with sweet detective skills, but also comes with a double edge that he has to overcome. He's very vulnerable in a fight, but becomes a big dog when his back is against a wall.

Punisher - he's not the most talented, but he is the most driven. I'm not really a gun guy but I like that when Frank has to find another way, he absolutely will. I like that Marvel shows the very flawed side of his life choices, where DC makes Batman the smartest and most popular kid in school.

Iron Fist - basically pure unarmed combat and a talent in many styles. I think they should prop him up as the best fighter in the human weight class, it's not like that makes him unfair.

Wolverine - has massive equalizers in his claws and healing, but it's really about his meanness. He's basically a beehive people can't help but shake.

Cyclops - Judo, intensity, tactics, and concussive eye beams. I've always loved the character.

Black Widow - stylish and secretive. She's been around the biggest and most powerful, but still keeps an elegant aura.

Winter Soldier - like an enhanced Punisher. Super dangerous in all arenas.

Gambit - kinetic charging is such a great power, especially with the cards. Very agile and the staff is a great weapon.

Interesting that you mention these 4 characters as being street level. My initial gut reaction is that Cyclops and Gambit are more "X-universe" and Winter Soldier and Black Widow more "S.H.I.E.L.D./espionage" than street. Still, considering the definitions of street level, I think some of these characters' abilities and/or setting help them fit the qualifications.

Black Widow is a strong contender for street level. Her abilities are just peak human, plus she's hung out with Daredevil and other street level characters in the past, most notably in the Marvel Knights series:

Same goes with Gambit. Abilities aren't too superhuman and he can hang with Daredevil and Spider-Man:



I could see Winter Soldier, considering his abilities.

Cyclops..........................I'm still on the fence. I don't see him interacting too much with street level characters or going on the streets. I'd classify him as being more concerned with mutant issues than street crime.