Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910
Results 136 to 142 of 142
  1. #136
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,061

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    You are still suprised that stories contradict each others on such things? Death already showed that it know the future. Eternity said the same. Phoenix (even as White Phoenix) also showed that it's outside of time. Those entities are a-temporal. Linear time has no meaning for them.

    Anyway, there is an explanation if you really want one: The Beyonders are themselves from outside the multiverse. They are an "external" event and so the various other cosmic entities couldn't know about it. It's something that shouldn't have happened (It wouldn't be called "the premature end of a universe" if it was a normal event).

    That's also the only explanation why it was possible to time travel to a future that was "after" the end of the multiverse: The multiverse existed. Those future existed. Until an external event happened.
    O'k now you've got me... I'm thinking

  2. #137

    Default

    John Wheeler said "Time Is What Prevents Everything From Happening At Once" (And he continued with "Space is what prevents everything from happening to me!" )

  3. #138
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,061

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    John Wheeler said "Time Is What Prevents Everything From Happening At Once" (And he continued with "Space is what prevents everything from happening to me!" )
    Duly noted

  4. #139
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    If she was unfamiliar with it then why was she screwing with it. She was being selfish. She is well versed in magic to know that trying to cheat death and trying to violate the laws of physics and nature comes with a cost. She simply didn't care what that cost was because she wanted her family back. As a human being, I get it and there is no guarantee that many of us wouldn't make the same decision in her shoes. However, there must be accountability in doing so. When you take a risk like that and it goes pear shaped, you have to accept responsibility for it period. That's the hallmark of being an adult.
    Her very powers, and the powers of nearly every single hero and villain defy the laws of physics. Heroes, and villains alike, have cheated death in multiple ways as well. None of these are inherently bad; we're just happy when they work out well.

  5. #140
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,061

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Marvel,

    1. Threat to National Security. Once that is invoked, all bets are off. Your comments about needing a warrant and such are pre 9/11 dude. That is not the reality of the comics nor is it our present reality. So the only question here is does a planet eating cosmic entity and the girl it is coming for pose a threat to national security. I think any government in the world would say yes.

    2. Xavier does not have to be granted the same authority. You can't kill civilians while resisting the government. Self defense is no longer a legal defense once it is determine in 1 above that Cyke resisted an attempt by a governmental authority to detain him. Once an agent of the government says come with me, the appropriate response is to go with them period. If you have questions or concerns about the legality of their actions then that is something you take up with the appropriate authorities after you go with them. It's not something that you simply choose to ignore or resist.d even if Xavier was working with the Avengers, he was not a member of the team. It was never stated outright that he was part of them or that he was granted the same authority. He still mostly coordinated with the X-men and the Jean Grey Institute. A citizen just working with the authorities can't be granted the same privileges as the authorities without some kind of legal standing. The absence of such standing in this case makes your assertion unreasonable and not pertinent to the case at hand. I have been stopped by cops a few times when I felt I did nothing wrong. You know what I did? I followed their instructions and then filled a complaint.

    3. You are pretending like Cyke became intoxicated the minute he got the PF power. He did not and nothing in the comic suggests he did. Now if I missed something where it said he was immediately intoxicated by this power then please present it. Again you are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you argue things didn't spiral out of control until he was provoked but if that is true then it means prior to being provoked, he was in his right state of mind and could have sought help during that time.

    4. It's relevant because what he knew about the PF informed his decision. If all he knew about the PF was that it was destructive then he likely would have ran to get help. Instead he knew that it could be destructive when provoked but he also knew his wife and daughter had lived with it previously using it to their benefit. Thus, unlike your claim, he did not view it as a dangerous drug. He viewed as a means to an end and consciously decided once he received the power to use it to his benefit like he had seen his wife and daughter do so before. That was the risk he took. It had nothing to do with the PF overpowering him the minute he received it. IT had to do with Cyke weighing the pros and cons and as is typical with Cyke making what he thought was a rational decision ie the benefits outweighed the risks. The idea that

    5. Again show me where the PF immediately overpowers the person it takes over. This was not true with JG and it was not true with RG. And nothing in the comic suggest it is true with Cyke. Further by you own admission, the point where it did overpower him was not until he was provoked. So you can't have it both ways.

    6. Why did the Avengers have an obligation to stop the PF. Because as you said, Cyke was given something dangerous against his will. Again, you contradict yourself. They were responding to the very risk you are now trying to use to defend Cyke. Like if you friend or son or daughter ingests a drug, do you wait for them to show symptoms, or do you intervene as soon as you are aware they ingested the drug?

    7. And again prove to me he was intoxicated from the minute he received the PF and tell me how that is consistent with the whole history of the PF. I know of no one that immediately becomes intoxicated with the PF. They go crazy when provoked and the point being made here is that if Cyke prior to being provoked had considered the danger that could arise once he was inevitable provoked then he should have sought help.

    So to sum, your whole argument rests on something you have yet to prove and something that I don't think any comic has ever supported ie the idea that the minute one receives the PF, they immediately lose all ability to make their own decisions.
    Cyke did not seek help because he lost all control. He didn't seek help because like his wife and daughter before him, he thought he could control it and use it to his benefit.
    Sorry, but that doesn't sound even remotely correct (right)...
    Last edited by ZNOP; 06-03-2015 at 02:15 PM.

  6. #141
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    1. Utopia doesn't have legal standing for it to be considered a war. They are living on land in the San Francisco territory and would be considered US residents/citizens or potentially illegal immigrants.
    They doesn't have to you can also see them as foreign force which occupy a small part of the U.S. I should be clear I don't want to defend the X-Men and on a legal scale they will have the shorter straw at least in the first round.(if you go to an U.S court after this) The only way to win something in a court would be probably to say that they are victims of unjust police power.

    It just so that their meaning has little value with 200 mutants they represent. The game is another if you include the Atlantians they are 1000th of people and I think member of the UN in the MCU but with just the people on the island it is just like raiding a crazy sect.

    The game would been much clearer when Cyclops had invited a large group of normal humans to life with them on the Utopia. In this case it is extremely fuzzy on the legal plane(International laws ) while it was very clear on a human level what it was.

    I think I tend to support the X-Men because they didn't started it.

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    2. The Avengers saw the PF eating planets and both they and the X-men agreed it was likely coming for Hope. That is probably cause to detain her as a threat to national if not global security. No government agency operates with 100% knowledge. They have to make decisions based on the information they have and if I were a citizen of the MU then yes I would support moving Hope off-world if the technology existed rather than risk earth being eaten by a cosmic entity.
    That wasn't what they tried all attempts from the Avengers pointed in the direction of annihilation of the PF. I would have been much better if they had followed with the flow. What they did was not much different from what they X-men tried. They both acted similar to the Iluminati.

    A)The X-Men wanted to change the evolution of humanity to the way it was before with excluding humanity from the decision. The only thing they can say positive about it is there was not much choice anyway, the PF would go with the program regardless what they wanted.

    B)The Avengers wanted to play god and follow their fear. The only thing that protect them is their ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    3. Cyke had information others did not but then the responsibility then is for him to articulate that information in a manner that garners trust. The person providing that information being a time traveler going around trying to take out the Avengers probably doesn't help. Further, there is no guarantee his information actually relates to 616 because as I noted in another post he doesn't really know if the future he saw was 616 or an alternate future. That is the problem with time travel.
    He had more than that so far I know there was an alien AI who told exactly what the PF wants to do and how he need to response to that.
    I think he was unable to thrust the Avengers after the whole house arrest thing in 101. I think this is the point where the authors to decide to make Cyclop a jerk so that the whole story works.

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    4. I am not suggesting they shouldn't gamble. I am suggesting you still are accountable for the results of said gamble. You don't just get a pass because the decisions you have to make are tough. That's the downside to leadership.
    We are not speaking about a few planets gone more like everything. If they normal citizen knew what their heroes done in all the years it would drive them insane.( I remember how Mr.Immortal stopped once the destruction of the universe with a bluff)
    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    5. Not sure you point here. I wasn't arguing about the spell at the end being good. If it had resulted in mass death or extinction then the people responsible for it should be held accountable as well. Again my point is you are responsible for you decisions. Doesn't matter who it is.
    You compared strategies with the risk involved I showed that the Avengers strategy included much more risks than the X-Men's. When fear tells you that you shouldn't put you head in the mouth of a crocodile it is reasonable but humans tend to fear a lot of thing which aren't reasonable this often ends in war or genocide or prosecution or senseless prohibitions.

  7. #142
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Rachel turned into Ahab's baby momma by Marvel. Disgusting.
    Posts
    6,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    The "trial" thing is not about the Phoenix Force. It's about it's host or avatar or possessed victim.

    As for suggesting me to read the topic title: That topic was created on a post I wrote. So, thank you, but I very much know what it is about.
    Yes it is, it even lists the Dark Phoenix stuff and clearly says "Trial of The Phoenix Force" and the legal implications as such. Victims are innocent as well. The Phoenix Force isn't evil nor were its victims, circumstance made them do evil things because no everyone has the mental fortitude as Rachel does due to years or slavery and torture that hardened her.

    Yet you aren't the TC so you have no right to dictate the discussion.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •