Geoff johns announces plans to wipe out brian azzarello and cliff chiang's wonder woman run with "darkseid war."

[Tayswift]

I believe the producers have gone on record having said that Diana is the daughter of Zeus, actually. So that's probably gonna stick. Larger media will likely overlook the sex raids, and maybe tweak the Amazons some, which I think we'd all be thankful for. On that point, you're right we don't know yet what they'll do.

And changing the origin story wont make Diana anything. Writing Diana as what she *should* be will do that. Far too much emphasis is put on origin stories; if you write Diana like a compassionate, powerful, respectable leader and hero, she'll be what she should be. What the Amazons did or didnt do wont matter beyond providing plot fuel. And this wouldnt be the first time they've done terrible, stupid things and then come around, and we fans have proven that we're all too eager to ignore the unpleasant past or otherwise marginalize it. We dont actually need it to be "erased", as if saying something didnt happen in a fictional world would somehow make us forget reading it. All we actually need is good stories that either ignore, downplay, or twist the bad ideas that see publication. You take the Amazons, have them have a change of heart, and then pretend like all the bad stuff they've done is further in the past than it actually is.

It was a producer of batman v superman, not sure if he will produce wonder woman or if the origin will stay on her solo movie that is being developped by patty jenkins and johns. As long the Bvs movie won't mention her origin, the solo movie is free to choose. wonder woman costume suggests for me that amazons aren't much devellopped, but it is only a guess.

Sure characterization is the most important thing, but a good origin the base of the character. Zeus worked better because Azzarello removed him from the story; Injustice comic did the same origin and it was pathetic. wonder woman is a feminine narrative focused on mother and daughters, female friendship. No space for cheating on another women, a serial rapist dad. Take the filth away, Morrison will show how to do in earth one [at least is what i hope]
I don't have to pretend what they did is lost on the past, because it should never ever happened. I don't know why DC choose to twist in sadistic way only wonder woman.

[Awonder]

Well, I generally support DC's new (old) approach to continuity. Its what I've been saying for years; that the story being told now should trump whatever came before.

With Johns though, Im far less forgiving about this sort of thing. He's been playing this switch-up game for years and more often than not, its damaged the properties. And worse, he has the pull to make these changes stick, such as with Barry Allen's mother's death becoming a major part of his origin. I like the guy, I like most of his work (especially the stuff before his promotion) but I hate how he gets away with these changes. Sometimes it's worked, like with Green Lantern. But a lot of the time it doesnt.

That said, Darkseid War has been absolutely great thus far and the glitches in Diana's origin and Themyscria arent so significant they cant be easily ignored. He's done the same with Superman in this story; the Kryptonian rocket was never in the Kent's barn but we see it there anyway. These little details being off from "proper" continuity irk me, but that's mostly my issues with Johns' habit of changing and/or ignoring what he doesnt like. That just strikes me as lazy and disrespectful to his peers.

However, Azzarello's origin is being used in film and nothing in the comics seems to indicate they plan on changing it. So for good or ill, it appears to be the norm for the foreseeable future.

I would, however, be quite pleased to see Johns redeem the Amazons, since it appears the Finches wont. I have no interest in a history alteration (I detest reboots, especially for Diana as that's a major problem in her history), but at least keep on with the redemption arc Azzarello was so clearly putting in place. An Amazon people being lead to a better future by Diana holds a lot of appeal and its a shame that the Finches didnt see fit to roll with that, as was the obvious intention.

Funny, I find changing the continuity of Diana's birth to "Zeus is your father" to be rather "lazy and disrespectful." Sadly, it's a well-worn trope that will likely stick for a long time, especially if/when it's used in the movies.

Like you, I welcome Johns working on the Amazons as, thus far, he has added back in more context for their background. The Finches are "rolling with" the Amazons "being led to a better future by Diana." It took had a really ugly turn, but that was only a small minority that participated; the majority sided with Diana by the end of the annual.

[Ascended]

Just because they've done bad things before doesn't make what the Finches have produced any more excusable. And even the they haven't done anything this awful with the exception of Amazon Attack.

I didnt mean to imply that what the Finches have done is excusable, I dropped the book because of them actually. What I meant was, mistakes have been made before and the Amazons treated badly or written as vicious, terrible people, and we've survived. Sometimes it's even been turned into a positive. This is no different. It can be fixed without a retcon of history. Or at least, last I knew it was. Like I said, I dropped the book after the second or third issue of the current run.

[Ascended]

Funny, I find changing the continuity of Diana's birth to "Zeus is your father" to be rather "lazy and disrespectful." Sadly, it's a well-worn trope that will likely stick for a long time, especially if/when it's used in the movies.

Like you, I welcome Johns working on the Amazons as, thus far, he has added back in more context for their background. The Finches are "rolling with" the Amazons "being led to a better future by Diana." It took had a really ugly turn, but that was only a small minority that participated; the majority sided with Diana by the end of the annual.

I gave Azzarello's changes a lot of leeway just because of circumstance. It was a fresh history, and therefore fair game. Whether it's in good taste or not is subjective of course, but in terms of continuity, it didnt bother me. If they were to change it around now? We've had years of this as the status quo, it's cross-company and, from appearances, will soon be cross-media. There's no blank slate to work with now, which is why I would find retconning it lazy and disrespectful. There are fare better ways to fix a mistake than pretending they never happened in the first place. And Diana in particular has suffered from that sort of thinking moreso than most, and that's one of the biggest reasons she's not more culturally entrenched.

And if the Finches are finally running with what Azzarello intended, then great. Whatever they do, I dont expect it to be all that good. But the ideas might bear fruit down the line under different writers. And if nothing else, the sooner we begin the redemption of the Amazons, the better.

[Flash Gordon]

Geoff Johns always seemed like a nice enough bloke, but I do find this disrespectful. It's one thing to do it like 50 years later but to do it to a guy who's run, is critically acclaimed, is not even out fully in trade yet? That's kiiiiiiinda too far, man.

Azz's WONDER WOMAN was pretty tailor made for a VERTIGO book.

[Tayswift]

Geoff Johns always seemed like a nice enough bloke. I just find this disrespectful. It's one thing to do it like 50 years later but to do it to a guy who's run, is critically acclaimed, is not even out fully in trade yet? That's too far, man.

Azz's WONDER WOMAN was pretty tailor made for a VERTIGO book.

exactly VERTIGO, I prefer a WW book magical like wayward than dark and gritty like Azzarello/chiang did. wonder woman needs to be popular with girls again

I gave Azzarello's changes a lot of leeway just because of circumstance. It was a fresh history, and therefore fair game. Whether it's in good taste or not is subjective of course, but in terms of continuity, it didnt bother me. If they were to change it around now? We've had years of this as the status quo, it's cross-company and, from appearances, will soon be cross-media. There's no blank slate to work with now, which is why I would find retconning it lazy and disrespectful. There are fare better ways to fix a mistake than pretending they never happened in the first place. And Diana in particular has suffered from that sort of thinking moreso than most, and that's one of the biggest reasons she's not more culturally entrenched.

And if the Finches are finally running with what Azzarello intended, then great. Whatever they do, I dont expect it to be all that good. But the ideas might bear fruit down the line under different writers. And if nothing else, the sooner we begin the redemption of the Amazons, the better.

we don't know the origin on movie and DC seems to be using the earth one book to sync with movie release.

DC retconned much better wonder woman run like the Rucka one

[Outside_85]

exactly VERTIGO, I prefer a WW book magical like wayward than dark and gritty like Azzarello/chiang did. wonder woman needs to be popular with girls again

And isn't it pretty disrespectful to think girls and women don't like a Vertigo-ish take on Wonder Woman? Considering one of the greatest female drawing books of the Vertigo imprint is the Sandman books?

[Ascended]

we don't know the origin on movie and DC seems to be using the earth one book to sync with movie release.

DC retconned much better wonder woman run like the Rucka one

I honestly have no idea what this has to do with what I said in the post you were quoting.