Secret Wars #3 Thoughts *Spoilers*

[Sandy Hausler]

Scene#3
Doom visits with Susan... we find out that he has told her that he wasn't always God!!! We find out that he used Johnny Storm for the sun (!) and then we see....DOOM'S FACE! (personally, I like it when he just has a scratch but can't stand for people to see it, but whatever, Ribic did a good job)

I don't think that was ever shown (that he only had a scratch), but it has been pointed out that once they put that molten lead (or whatever metal it is) mask on him, it wouldn't be just a scratch anymore. It think that was a John Byrne idea, but, for all I know, someone picked it up and ran with it -- but I've never seen it if that is the case.

Sandy Hausler

[celeherald]

First, I'm in this thread because I'm reading this book.
Second, you didn't offer explanation, you just said 'reread NA#33'. Can't reread something I haven't read.

What I don't get is The Beyonders' reasons for wanting to destroy everything. They have nothing to gain from it.

And Iron Maiden, this sentence, "the incursions were a half measure of at least saving something to stall them off from wiping everything out.". Can you elaborate as I cannot understand what a half measure of something to stall wiping everything out is." What is the something? What would wipe everything out?

They want to destroy everything to see what happens, it's pretty explicit it's just a big experiment to them. The Incursions were meant to preserve as much as possible.

[The Fury]

Beyonders intend to destroy all the universes at once

Why?

....

[The Fury]

They want to destroy everything to see what happens, it's pretty explicit it's just a big experiment to them. The Incursions were meant to preserve as much as possible.

Incursions apparently did nothing but destroy the 2 universes colliding. How is that persevering anything?

This is sounding stupider as it goes on. The Beyonders wanted everything destroyed just to experiment just sounds stupid. Then what? They just sit there in their dimension thinking.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

First, I'm in this thread because I'm reading this book.
Second, you didn't offer explanation, you just said 'reread NA#33'. Can't reread something I haven't read.

What I don't get is The Beyonders' reasons for wanting to destroy everything. They have nothing to gain from it.

And Iron Maiden, this sentence, "the incursions were a half measure of at least saving something to stall them off from wiping everything out.". Can you elaborate as I cannot understand what a half measure of something to stall wiping everything out is." What is the something? What would wipe everything out?

The beyonders state that they are destroying everything to see what would happen when everything ends at the same time. That was the original plan.

The Molecule Man had a copy in every universe created by the Beyonders. They had a set time to go off in 25 yearsand when they went off everything was supposed to die at once. Molecule Man told Doom about it and told him how to interfere with their plans.

[Iron Maiden]

First, I'm in this thread because I'm reading this book.
Second, you didn't offer explanation, you just said 'reread NA#33'. Can't reread something I haven't read.

What I don't get is The Beyonders' reasons for wanting to destroy everything. They have nothing to gain from it.

And Iron Maiden, this sentence, "the incursions were a half measure of at least saving something to stall them off from wiping everything out.". Can you elaborate as I cannot understand what a half measure of something to stall wiping everything out is." What is the something? What would wipe everything out?

The somethings were what we are left with in Battleworld. We don't know the whole story left but it broke off in NA#32 and that will be revisted in Secret Wars #4. Here's why I said "something"... Doom asks Doctor Strange with the impending destruction of all that they know, wouldn't you rather save something? Also, we know something went wrong but will find out in the next issue too

I echo Abe's suggestion to read New Avengers. You get most of the history of the incursions from there than in Avengers.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

The Beyonders don't care about anything else outside their realm. They just wanted to see what would happened. What they planned to do after that is unknown as they didn't feel the need to tell anyone else.

[The Fury]

The beyonders state that they are destroying everything to see what would happen when everything ends at the same time. That was the original plan.

The Molecule Man had a copy in every universe created by the Beyonders. They had a set time to go off in 25 yearsand when they went off everything was supposed to die at once. Molecule Man told Doom about it and told him how to interfere with their plans.

Ah, some explanation, thank you.

A bit more sense. 616 MM ruining things right?

I echo Abe's suggestion to read New Avengers. You get most of the history of the incursions from there than in Avengers.

Not all of us can afford to buy all books, especially ones we might not enjoy.



Eitherway, thank you all for more explanation.

[ian0delond]

Incursions apparently did nothing but destroy the 2 universes colliding. How is that persevering anything?

This is sounding stupider as it goes on. The Beyonders wanted everything destroyed just to experiment just sounds stupid. Then what? They just sit there in their dimension thinking.

Incursions made the Battleworld possible.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Ah, some explanation, thank you.

A bit more sense. 616 MM ruining things right?


Not all of us can afford to buy all books, especially ones we might not enjoy.



Eitherway, thank you all for more explanation.

No problem. The thing is all the Molecule Men share a mind across each universe. At some point they became aware of the Beyonder's plan and told Doom how to mess it up. Not sure why they felt causing the incursions would help though. Maybe he thought Doom would be able to figure something out by drawing the Beyonders out.

[Iron Maiden]

Ah, some explanation, thank you.

A bit more sense. 616 MM ruining things right?


Not all of us can afford to buy all books, especially ones we might not enjoy.



Eitherway, thank you all for more explanation.

But how do you know you won't enjoy something you don't buy? Would one issue hurt? Does your LCS allow you to Byrne steal?

Anyway, you can go back to the discussion threads for the NA issues if you want, particulary NA#32 and #33. Everyone was hashing out all theories about incursions there.

[Biclopcicle]

First, I'm in this thread because I'm reading this book.
Second, you didn't offer explanation, you just said 'reread NA#33'. Can't reread something I haven't read.

What I don't get is The Beyonders' reasons for wanting to destroy everything. They have nothing to gain from it.

And Iron Maiden, this sentence, "the incursions were a half measure of at least saving something to stall them off from wiping everything out.". Can you elaborate as I cannot understand what a half measure of something to stall wiping everything out is." What is the something? What would wipe everything out?

OK, so the Beyonders have been talked about in the MU since Two-in-One #63. They are beings that exist outside the Multiverse. They look at our existence as an experiment. It is not known if they created the multiverse, or simply use it as a laboratory. Anyway, at some point they decided that the multiverse wasn't worth keeping around, so they decided to make an experiment that caused the simultaneous end of the multiverse. The means by which this would be accomplished: they created Molecule Man, who is a singular being across every reality in the multiverse who possesses a shared consciousness with all his parallel counterparts. In 25 years after Owen Reece became MM, all versions of him would die and take the multiverse with him in a simultaneous explosion. Why they created the 25 year time delay is unknown, but some have speculated that they wanted to carry out further experiments during that time period. It is important to note that Molecule Man's origin was in Fantastic Four #20, which is only about 13 years or so previous to now (in Marvel Time).

So Doom went about killing MMs to destroy universes. After about 7 years (perhaps 1200-1300 Molecule men later, if Doom managed to kill 1000 in five years), the incursions started. In NA#33, Strange remarks that the Incursions are more or less ending the multiverse anyway, so what is the point, how is Doom's plan thwarting the Beyonders? Doom says that it would be worthwhile if they could at least save "something" of the multiverse. So whether this means Doom had been collecting incursion points prior to his confrontation with the Beyonders, or that once he destroyed the Beyonders, he would have saved whatever universes were remaining, is unknown.

He confronts the Beyonders, tries to kill them, and the universe count goes down to 22. We don't know if the Beyonders survived or not, but we do know that Doom's attack didn't exactly go as planned.

[Biclopcicle]

I don't think that was ever shown (that he only had a scratch), but it has been pointed out that once they put that molten lead (or whatever metal it is) mask on him, it wouldn't be just a scratch anymore. It think that was a John Byrne idea, but, for all I know, someone picked it up and ran with it -- but I've never seen it if that is the case.

Sandy Hausler

As recently as FF#16, his face had no scars at all. Doom has healed himself and changed bodies in the past. In FF#16, Living Tribunal curses him so that his face will reflect his soul, more or less, and that he would be unable to heal any scarring that appeared.

[Biclopcicle]

Not that I would ever do this or condone its practice, but you can usually find a recent issue storytimed on 4chan. Supposedly. But I have never, ever done this. Lol.

But yeah, I would recommend getting, at the very least, NA2, NA 31-33. If you wanted to get a couple more, then NA 27, 29, and 30. You dont need Avengers to understand the incursion scenario, but it fills out the stort and tells you what the Illuminati, Shield Avengers, and Multiversal Avengers are all up to. They're probably 50% off on comixology by now. Maybe not.

[Abe]

Why?

....

That is a real good question !... I'm afraid no one can answer yet...

I just hope the answer won't be too silly (SW II was a little bit....). I hope it would be brilliant (Earth X was !). And I mostly hope Doom will erase their name from history !

Edit : ... but before I've got to read that Two-in-One #63 ( High Evolutionary involved... ) Biclopcicle mentioned at the beginning of his great post (loved the "perhaps 1200-1300 Molecule men later" precision !)