Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #1 Spoilers/Discussion

[Darthfury78]

It may have been, it may have not been, it could still happen. It just feels like another elephant in the room (and who knows, if it was an alternate reality, it might lead again to a return to a marriage-era universe just to bring those kids into the current universe, rofl)

Personally, I like Peter single. But the last 8 years post-OMD has been so uninspiring to see Peter as a man-child. With the marriage out of the equation, I would have thought that Marvel would have used that opportunity to develop Peter's relationship with Betty Brant and Felicia Hardy respectively. Or even Carol Danvers or Jessica Drew. Instead, Marvel wasted that opportunity to re-established lost relationship and potential new ones with non-Spidey created characters like the ones I had mentioned. All that Marvel has done is bring up the constant tease of Peter and MJ. Either they are going to be together or not. Otherwise, why have OMD in the first place, only to rub it in the readers face if there are no plans to bring them back together again and completely ignore the alternates who might have made things interesting in their own way...

[Mister Mets]

Re: Peter killing Venom, I had zero problem with it precisely because, in the circumstances and in the context of this issue, what other choice did Peter really have? Venom outright said he was going to come back and literally suck out his daughter's brains, and as any parent can tell you, the moment somebody threatens their kid, they will make sure the person who threatened their child will wish they were never born. Certainly not to the extent Peter did, and I'm not saying he was ultimately right, but for me, it was perfectly understandable and in-character for Peter Parker the dad to do what he did. It also allowed the Eddie Brock Venom to finally be the terrifying, relentless monster he was always intended to be in I don't know how long. No "lethal protector" nonsense here.

Now to me, the bigger controversy is Peter choosing to quit being Spidey and when he says stuff like "It’s not a perfect world. But, I look after me and mine. And that’s good enough.” Which is definitely something Spider-Man would normally never, ever say. Then again, that appears to be the idea: that by choosing to place all his efforts into being a family man instead of finding a proper balance in which he can be both a family man and a superhero, it's going to wind up being a costly mistake.

Is it really possible for him to have a proper balance between being a family man and superhero when the rest of the heroes are dead, and the Regent is supreme?

We can consider how being a parent might change Peter Parker, but the other part is also a new situation for him. We haven't seen what he would do if the bad guys had a permanent victory.

[jackolover]

God, what a shocking story for Dan Slott to tell. Sure, it's an alternate universe so he can throw out all the rules, but imagine if this was ASM #19, and Dan killed all the Avengers and Peter Parker was wracked with the dilemma of whether to save Avengers or family? I thought he would be so torn by the trauma, he would suffer that the Avengers were killed and be inconsolable that he picked his family to save.

That he walks the streets without changing into Spidey and his daughter has aged 5 years is also an issue. What was the reason Parker hung up the suit, while all the villains ran around unaffected by worries Spider-Man would show up. It's Mark Millars WANTED all over again. Such a good shocking premise to Amazing Spiderman. A catch 22, because we get what we want, (the marriage), but we don't get Spiderman.

That cover image gives the impression of a relaxed safe family, but it hides an ugliness that belies the serenity of it.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Considering the Symbiote escaped after Pete toppled the building onto Eddie, I'm getting the feeling that it's going to end up bonding with Annie.

[DCordo74]

Whatever I may feel about some elements of this issue. There is one thing that is clear, these two moments were freaking amazing.

tumblr_npe5vbjUjP1su2of1o1_540.jpg

tumblr_npe5vbjUjP1su2of1o2_540.jpg

FINALLY!

[mtalisker18]

Whatever I may feel about some elements of this issue. There is one thing that is clear, these two moments were freaking amazing.

tumblr_npe5vbjUjP1su2of1o1_540.jpg

tumblr_npe5vbjUjP1su2of1o2_540.jpg

FINALLY!

MJ was a total Badass in that scene

[SpiderOrange]

While others have no qualms with Peter taking a life, this part of the story did trouble me. In a way, it appears to be Slott's way of saying that there are consequences to Peter having his wife and child back. Indeed, I found Peter choosing to protect his family over upholding his code of "no one dies" and letting the bad guy win to be the most powerful aspects of this issue. This isn't wrong per se. Indeed, a husband protecting his wife and daughter is very noble and selfless. But, in an ideal world, Peter would be able to keep his codes as well as protect his family. I thought that this series would be a wonderful happy ending filled with superheroics, but it appears as though Slott is not making the story that easy.

As for the other aspects of the issue, yeah, I agree, there was definitely a very 90s vibe to this series. Was it just me, or was the mentioning of Moon Knight, Punisher, and Night Thrasher an homage to the "Round Robin" storyline back in Amazing Spider-Man? Oh yeah, definitely liked Mary Jane's characterization and the tender moments among Peter, MJ, and Anne.

Will continue on with the series. Wondering where it will go.

See, I'm of two minds with this. On one level, as one who has a God daughter, I get it. Venom threatening to eat your little girls' brains had the effect that Brock wanted--- it ticked Parker off. He was trying to antagonize him without the realization that he stepped well over the line. I would typically expect Parker to figure out some way to use sound or fire to separate Brock from the suit, then the suit gets contained by the Avengers / S.H.E.I.L.D. or whatever, then eventually finds its way back to Brock again. Rinse, wash and repeat.

At the same time though, in "Back in Black", after discovering Kingpin is the one who ordered the hit on Aunt May, Peter beats Fisk to within an inch of his life, and then threatens to come back and finish the job when May dies. So family is always going to be first. It reminds me of that line in Star Trek where Kahn says, "What would you not do for your family, Kirk?" If it comes down to keeping his ideals of never killing or killing to protect those he loves, I think the choice is obvious, and I imagine many of us would do it as well to protect those that matter most.

I also personally liked that Slott wrote it as a very decisive victory. A lot of times in the 90's, Peter didn't outright beat Brock, or he'd do stuff like fake his death so Brock could retire to an island somewhere. Here it was clear an Angry Spider-Man is dangerous.

[ShaggyB]

It didn't address OMD like some were hoping for, but I already made up my mind not to bank on that.

While I understood peoples thought on that when they first announced the title.... once it was stated to be part of Secret Wars, I dont get the hope.

Over all, the issue was a fun twist. More wondering what happens when the universe resets. Will any of this come into play?

[jimishim12]

i don’t get where the saint thing comes from.

yeah, for me, part of the test is how the rest of the marvel universe reacts to him. there’s a certain reverence and respect for guys like cap or mystics like strange. your reputation precedes you. spidey is well known amongst all circles but none of them refer to him as the wall crawling jesus. he’s one of the good guys, not above the good guys.

Funny you call rogers closer to a saint when he's killed more than Spidey has and has done more hardened choices of taking life than Spider-Man has, Spidey is the closest of the two who is a mercy loving pacisfist.

[jimishim12]

There are a couple of things I haven't seen enough discussion on about this issue.

1: Peter doesn't make any major decision about his family's future without MJ giving her opinion. When Iron Man offers Spidey a place with the Avengers, Peter immediately wants to consult with his wife. When Venom threatens Annie, MJ lets her thoughts be known. I think Slott wants to emphasize their marriage as a partnership.

2: "Renew Your Vows" obviously has multiple meanings. The most obvious is the relationship between Peter and MJ, as that was the initial promotion, and a major part of the promotion for this project. But the other major meaning should be obvious after reading this issue. Under some understandable circumstances, Spidey kills someone. Slott has emphasized Spidey killing someone as a bad thing. Spidey broke his vow (although whether or not this particular Spidey ever did the "No One Dies" vow is pretty irrelevant, as Spidey trying to save lives is a major part of his character).

Think of the opening act of the Batman Beyond animated series. Bruce Wayne builds the Beyond suit so he can continue to act as Batman. But he still breaks his vow and picks up a gun, a sure sign that he can't be Batman anymore. A similar vow-breaking occurs here, with Spider-Man killing his foe. But since we can't expect a "Terry McGinnis" to come in to fill the suit, Peter will have to renew his vow of being Spider-Man. (Unless Annie tries to be the "Terry McGinnis" of this story. And that's what spurs Peter back into action.)

At least that's my impression at this point in time.

3: There are two major time skips related to Secret Wars. One was the "Time Runs Out" arc of Avengers/New Avengers (which was pretty quiet on what was going on in Spidey's life), and the other will happen after Secret Wars. What is going on, I wonder?

This. Peter may be a relateable everyman, but he's still a ideal example of goodness. He doesnt need to stoop to our level of logic to get his convictions through on whats important and how to solve things, otherwise he'd be deadpool.

[Osvjietnik]

To everyone who has a problem with Spidey killing Venom.... GOOD!!
That's the point, guys!

To save his family, Peter had to make the one decision he has always decided against and in so doing has broken his "Vow." It's obvious that this has taken its toll on his conscience. He broke his one rule so he hangs up the tights. This will be the story of how he Renews His Vow.

A wonderful beginning to another great Spider-Man story. I sure hope Slott doesn't leave the book after this, it seems like he just might. I think all the books creative teams are getting a shake up after Secret Wars is over.

[CrimsonEchidna]

While I understood peoples thought on that when they first announced the title.... once it was stated to be part of Secret Wars, I dont get the hope.

Over all, the issue was a fun twist. More wondering what happens when the universe resets. Will any of this come into play?

I could see Peter back in a relationship with Mary Jane post-Secret Wars. Probably not married, but "committed." Maybe even bring the Bugle back to the way it was like it is here and have Peter do some freelance inventing on the side.

[Steeler53]

I really love this version of MJ ( it reminded me of MJ against the Spider-Slayer). I would love to see this version of MJ ( and Annie) end up with 616 Pete. As far as Fisk is concerned I remember Back In Black' and although he beat him to a pulp, he does not hate him like he does Brock. If you asked me who he despises the most it is Morbius, then Brock then Osborn. I actually think it is Morbius above all. Even Osborn ( ASM 122), Otto ( ASM 91 ( Captain Stacy's Death)), Lizard ( after his son's death, and The Burgler do not bring out the hate that Brock did in RYV and Morbius seems to ( although Michael never comes close to the others as making Pete's life miserable).

[The Ice-Guy]

I can see peter killing venom for treatening his five and child, I'd rather he not but none the less its completely realistic in the situation, my main problem was how clean and quickly he decided to do it,

Despite what some posters on here have said, I do very much think spider-man is pretty close to a saint, this is the guy with a compulsive need to answer every call for help no matter who's asking , the guy who finally found fulfillment when his day job allowed him to invent things to help other people and who proclaims that when he's around "no one dies" and wouldn't even put down a seemingly psychopathic super villain(massacre or carnage) because he belived they weren't even past redemption.

I suppose you can say this is 90's peter and he isn't as developedor something like that but for a guy who puts on that mask everyday with hope in the inherent goodness of others, he did the deed a little too quickly , maybe if he had thrown out a "Eddie please don't make me do this, please!" It would've been more believable

There's also the fact that eddies motivation was contrived for the plot to the point where I sorta got a carnage level insanity from him but hey this is an AU... Besides that I'm really interested in where the story goes, it seems like there will be major reprecausions later based on that moment.

[Xenon]

I am a sucker. So I read this.

Pros:

+While I'm still not sold on the kid, the status quo at the start of this is pretty much perfect. Hidden Indentiy, progressed, classic job (though I could take him with a new job too). Though that sort of seemed like the point. Which...I'll get into this later.
+Good Art. If I hadn't of read the first several pages I would be without complaint.
+I liked him killing Venom. He was a threat. He wasn't going to stop, and his family couldn't save themselves. Limited options, he did what was necessary. It's the grown up version of things. not wanting to kill but doing what he had to.
+I could accept a series under the ending status quo too....except without Regent, of course. I like my Spider-Man distinct and alone from the other heroes.

Cons:

- The Dialogue. Maybe it's just because I haven't read a Slott comic in over a year at this point, but the dialogue stuck out to me as particularly awful. The worst I think was Mary Jane's line in response to Peter's "what do I owe you?" joke. I tried really hard to talk myself into it by saying that MJ WAS the type to pump herself up....but I couldn't do it. Nobody talks like that. It's the most awkward, unrealistic line I've seen in some time. Venom's last line is also pretty bad.
- The "what if" pitfalls this book falls into. I don't buy that Regent could beat all the Avengers. I don't buy that Spider-Man would be able to put the webs down for five to eight years. At least, I don't buy that from the way this story sells it. I think Tony would have some Hulk/Thor/Thanosbuster armor ready (and they have the fight IN NEW YORK),they'd find some way to mentally overwhelm him, Cap would execute some difficult strategy, something. And while I could buy that Spider-Man would tell himself he's not going to be Spider-Man, and try to justify it by saying it's for his family, I also think he'd hear someone getting mugged and talk himself into it (Just this one time). Or talk himself into thinking he could win.

Now, I COULD believe these things. You could tell me a story where I came away believing that they would behave uncharacteristically. Failing really hard in the case of the Avengers, or controlling his compulsions in the case of Spider-Man. But this book doesn't do it. I recognize that part of that is a time constraint (only have so many pages, of course), but that doesn't make it better. You gotta plan according the the time you have, and not try and sell a story that needs more time than you've got.

-Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Hulk is vulnerable to mental things, right? I mean, while I'm on the topic of things that aren't believable, regent beats the Hulk by turning into Colossus and then using Cyclops' eye beams, but that doesn't seem like it'd be enough. Hulk is way stronger than Colossus, physical things are kind of what he's used to dealing with. Yet the guy with Professor X's powers doesn't use the simplest solution to the problem.

So overall this is just ok. Giving me a status quo that doesn't feel wrong is barely a plus, it's kind of like the baseline that we should have had for a long time. Kind of like a person who stops stealing from you isn't benevolent on their part, it's just getting back to what should be normal. So the terrible dialogue, rushed nature, chumping out of the Avengers, and unbelievable character development weigh much more heavily in my mind. I'll still finish it, because like I said, I'm a sucker.

On a neutral-ish note, because I'm out of the news cycle, I somehow managed to forget that this was written by Slott and I lowered my expectations when I saw his name on the cover. Considering this history this story is really just one long self-proving manifesto on why the proper status quo is flawed and can't work. I give the odds at 60-35-5. 5% chance that at the end of this story Spider-Man's family life is relatively untouched. 35% chance that he tells his family he has to leave them to live their lives without him because with great power comes great responsibility, and 60% chance that someone, probably Mary Jane, dies to remind him that with great power comes great responsibility. That last one is buoyed by both Slott's belief in his own cleverness and the preview in the issue of issue number 3 which has the black suit. Which after Back in Black symbolizes the vengeful kind of Spider-Man.

In Secret Wars #3, Dr. Strange says that spoilers:

the heroes of Earth-616 have been in stasis for 8 years. I think we can estimate that the time skip in this issue is more than just a year or two.

end of spoilers

It's probably the whole eight years. Annie (why is she named Annie, btw) is an infant in this story, but your standard child age of 6-10 in the end. She's definitely not a toddler, in any case.

Yeah, same here. Feels more like an attempt of saying that "SEE, Peter can't be Spidey and married at the same time! SEE!".

Like it so far. Interested to see where this goes. I honestly don't see how anything different happens if Peter's with the Avengers, other than he dies too. My only minor complaint is that the decision to kill Eddie happened too quickly . . . or maybe matter-of-fact-ly. Although I'm not sure how much could have been done with the limited space available.

I can understand that decision being made quickly given what has happened in the past and Peter's current situation. But I also get why this can be unsatisfying, because the death of Eddie Brock/Venom feels like it should be a big deal, not something that just kinda happens. The perils of What Ifs....?

I think it appears to be saying that right now but the story only just started. I'd bet dollars to donuts the main theme is "Peter has to be Spidey. It's in his blood." We just need the
story arc to take us there.

Well he deliberately killed a guy. Some people would call that murder.

Those people are wrong. He killed a guy that was attacking him and was threatening to kill his wife and daughter. Justifiable Homicide is what that's known as, or "self-defense".

He was.

And I figured 'executed' was less harsh than 'murdered', which is also accurate.

I think you need to re-figure good sir. Executed is way harsh, as it implies cold, calculating detachment, a killing as normal course of business instead of out of defense or necessity.

Since Peter toppled a building onto Eddie, manslaughter is definitely the correct terminology.

I liked the issue. It didn't address OMD like some were hoping for, but I already made up my mind not to bank on that. If I had to guess, the "diverging point" of this else world is that Mary Jane didn't miscarried (or Norman never kidnap the baby, whichever you believe happened.)

1) He intentionally dropped that building on Eddie, meaning that the building was a weapon that he used to kill him. It's not murder or manslaughter because of self-defense, but if that element was taken out, intentionally dropping a building on someone is still murder.
2) I dont' think you can square this with the normal timeline, honestly. That's probably the best time, honestly, but that baby was definitely already called May, even before she was born (IIRC).