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  1. #31
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Yet, not only is Batman likely to be dismissive and defensive about Superman's capacity to effect city-wide change given his own experiences with it but both quotes do indicate that when it came to Metropolis' crime "underworld," Superman did make a positive difference. Thus, Superman improved the city -- something which was also very evident in Secret Origin. Morrison's decision to portray Superman as improving the city is not revolutionary genius on his part. It was a good idea when other writers did it, and it was a good idea when he did it.

    What's a shame, though, is how this "Truth" arc contextualizes Superman's populism. He didn't choose to act like more of a man of the people by dressing the way he is or riding a motorcycle. He didn't choose to hang out with these people either. He's been forced to do it by circumstance. Consequently, Pak and Yang are essentially validating those who have criticized Superman in the past as being unable to relate to readers and unable to relate to humans within his own narrative world because his superpowers and secret identity acted as an alleged barrier. It seems to them, we can only empathize with Superman as an underdog when he literally is an underdog like us (i.e. he is more like us physically) than doing the harder thing, which is showing that even with all of his power and even with a secret identity, Superman is still a character who fights for the little guy as a superhero and reporter and is still a character we can root for and relate to.
    That's the thing though. When he meets Batman, we didn't even see Metropolis' underworld before. And the story ends with Superman agreeing with Batman that basically Batman is more qualified than him to clean Gotham, which we saw as a very bad place. So it's hard to dismiss Batman as just being defensive, when the story is mostly leaing toard his point of view.
    Morrison's "genius" wasn't in telling us Superman improved Metropolis, but in showing, notably by showing us that Metropolis was a pretty bad place.

    As for the contextualization of Superman's populism in "Truth"....I don't see it that way. True, he didn't choose to expose his identity and the motorcycle is more a choice dictated by circumstances. However, nobody forced him to come back . Nobody forced him to leave Alaska, nobody forced him to check on his neighbourhood, nobody forced him to go help with the Shadow Monster. Clark could have decided to sit this one out until he figured out what happened to him, and frankly, it would have been hard to blame him. Instead, he jumped right back into the fray, to protect "his home". There's been scenes of Superman interacting with children in the New52, or fighting for the little guy. But yes, the secret identity is a bareer, by definition I want to say. Because the secret ID means he never shows his complete self to anyone. But the point is, even in dire circumstances, he didn't change. What did are his opportunities of interactions with other people. And even then, it's less about how he interacts with other people and how other people interact with him.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    They need to justify Batman's existence. That's why they come up with excuses for the League don't simply rushing into Gotham and putting organized crime out of commission. Are you taking seriously the notion that the guy with x ray vision can't handle common criminals?

  3. #33
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    Pardon my French, but I didn't enjoy this. Is Lois revealing Superman's identity really going to be relegated to a footnote that takes place between stories? And the way it's being handled by everyone involved - the characters themselves and writers and editors - is just bizarre. Clark's reaction to this is to put on a Superman T-shirt, buy a motorcycle, hop from motel to motel, and... um... Well, what the hell is he even doing? He kind of acts like he's hoping people don't recognize him, why doesn't he just buy a fake mustache or put on a pair of sunglasses? And I mean, he's still Superman, surely there's somewhere he can go? I'm also disappointed that the ethical implications of Lois's actions are seemingly not going to be addressed at all. That's nice. This is nice.

    Also, Clark (in his depowered form) gets stabbed at the end of Batman/Superman Annual #2. Has this been followed up yet? Weren't all these Truth-related comics intertwining with each other? And speaking of which, god damn, Clark wasn't that careful about using his solar flare power, was he? "A cat's stuck in a tree? TIME TO USE MY SOLAR FLARE WHICH I BARELY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND LEAVES ME POWERLESS FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME!!!"

  4. #34
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    Pardon my French, but I didn't enjoy this. Is Lois revealing Superman's identity really going to be relegated to a footnote that takes place between stories? And the way it's being handled by everyone involved - the characters themselves and writers and editors - is just bizarre. Clark's reaction to this is to put on a Superman T-shirt, buy a motorcycle, hop from motel to motel, and... um... Well, what the hell is he even doing? He kind of acts like he's hoping people don't recognize him, why doesn't he just buy a fake mustache or put on a pair of sunglasses? And I mean, he's still Superman, surely there's somewhere he can go? I'm also disappointed that the ethical implications of Lois's actions are seemingly not going to be addressed at all. That's nice. This is nice.

    Also, Clark (in his depowered form) gets stabbed at the end of Batman/Superman Annual #2. Has this been followed up yet? Weren't all these Truth-related comics intertwining with each other? And speaking of which, god damn, Clark wasn't that careful about using his solar flare power, was he? "A cat's stuck in a tree? TIME TO USE MY SOLAR FLARE WHICH I BARELY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND LEAVES ME POWERLESS FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME!!!"
    The Lois Lane story is going to be in Superman (which is going to be a prequel to this, at least at first). That much has been confirmed.
    And it's pretty obvious that, by the point where he puts on the "S" shirt, he's not trying to go unnoticed anymore.
    Also, where do you want him to go? Metropolis is his town. If it needs him, of course he should go right back.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    Pardon my French, but I didn't enjoy this. Is Lois revealing Superman's identity really going to be relegated to a footnote that takes place between stories? And the way it's being handled by everyone involved - the characters themselves and writers and editors - is just bizarre. Clark's reaction to this is to put on a Superman T-shirt, buy a motorcycle, hop from motel to motel, and... um... Well, what the hell is he even doing? He kind of acts like he's hoping people don't recognize him, why doesn't he just buy a fake mustache or put on a pair of sunglasses? And I mean, he's still Superman, surely there's somewhere he can go? I'm also disappointed that the ethical implications of Lois's actions are seemingly not going to be addressed at all. That's nice. This is nice.

    Also, Clark (in his depowered form) gets stabbed at the end of Batman/Superman Annual #2. Has this been followed up yet? Weren't all these Truth-related comics intertwining with each other? And speaking of which, god damn, Clark wasn't that careful about using his solar flare power, was he? "A cat's stuck in a tree? TIME TO USE MY SOLAR FLARE WHICH I BARELY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND LEAVES ME POWERLESS FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME!!!"
    Lois and the her reasons will be in the Superman book from Gene Yang. Action Comics from Greg Pak deals with the repercussions of it.

    The supporting cast is split up now

    Lois is in Superman
    Jimmy and Lee in Action Comics
    The new Batman and Lex are in Batman/Superman
    Lana and Steel are in SM/WW

  6. #36
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    Cant wait toget this Thurs aft. Sounds great!

  7. #37
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    It was good, no doubt,but i'd expect nothing less of Pak and Kuder. So it really was par for the course. Very well written with great art. Can't ask for more in that respect.

    Again though, what's gonna make or break this is how the stuff with Lois and the secret identity hashes out. If that's handled with the same care and obvious love for the characters and who they are, then it will work. Again, Yang has a lot of the burden of selling the idea Lois Lane would do this to Superman. It literally all hinges on that. If the reasoning is flimsy and/or makes Lois look bad (as in selfish or reckless or ignorant)...well the whole conceit will fall apart and it will be tough for me to buy into all the rest of this.

    While I disagree with some that want to see this as the permanent status quo...(call me crazy, I want to see Superman in his full costume pulling off super feats AND also see Clark Kent, bespeckled reporter doing his thing too)...this will be a fun detour for the next year or so. if the rest of the other comics involved with TRUTH is of this quality, then this may be one of the better "event" arcs in the history of the character and easily the best Superman story of it's type since the mid 90's.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 06-03-2015 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    I flipped through this issue at the comic shop, and when I got to the panel of buzzcut, t-shirt and jeans Superman sitting on the motorcycle saying "hell yeah", that made me bust out laughing. It was so absurd. I couldn't take the rest of the issue seriously after that.
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  9. #39
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's my understanding that Lana and John are actually missing. Maybe some black bags and night raids were involved? I also can't wait to see how hang takes on the Lois and Perry side of things. It seems Action will be focused on the man of the people side of things while Superman the more personal side of things.
    Wow, yeah good call man. I was wondering if maybe the military were behind this. Has anybody seen Sam Lane and that weird Anti-Superman global defense layer he had since Perez's run? I'll try and find a scan of it but I'm not good with scans and all that stuff.

    It'd be cool to see the government come completely down on Superman. Black masks and gasoline and all that.

    Maybe Lois is being threatened from some higher ups? Doesn't seem like she's the type that would give a crap about a threat but it's a possibility that she did it to protect Clark I guess? That seems like a hard sell to me, but we'll see.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Lee Lambert seems to be the next big female character in Superman's life, very excited to read more about her.
    Issue #41 will be the first issue of Action Comics I have read since Morrison (and I won't be able to read it until it ships to my house at the end of the month), but I wouldn't be surprised if Lee Lambert will be a big character in Superman's life. She is already setup with the LL initials like Lois Lane and Lana Lang.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Ragdoll's Avatar
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    Calling it now, they are setting up Clark's next job to be as a police officer, and it mimics Powers style. Where he helps the people in person and cleans up the corruption we saw hints of in this issue, Jim Gordon style.

    Also, frakk the police, rumbling in to break up a peaceful protest. I'm sure they'll lie and claim the residents threw bottles or something to provoke them to action.
    Last edited by Ragdoll; 06-03-2015 at 04:18 PM.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    I loved this issue. "Truth" looks even more promising than I thought.
    In Pak & Kuder we trust!

  13. #43
    Incredible Member Ishmael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Ha ha, I used to think Johns had no respect for other people's work- but I think it's more than that now. I think he just simply has no sense of continuity between books. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but I imagined it going down like this:

    Editor: "Uh, Geoff Superman's rocket was taken by the military and that's sort of a massive part of his origin...it's how he learns who he is, it's how he establishes himself, meets Lois and Lex and--"

    Johns: "Oh stop being silly that didn't happen in Richard Donner's film!"
    Easiest explanation is that it's being told from Wonder Woman's perspective, and that's what she imagined to have happened with all of these characters.

    But yeah, pretty blatant disregard of continuity.

  14. #44
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll View Post
    Calling it now, they are setting up Clark's next job to be as a police officer, and it mimics Powers style. Where he helps the people in person and cleans up the corruption we saw hints of in this issue, Jim Gordon style.

    Also, frakk the police, rumbling in to break up a peaceful protest. I'm sure they'll lie and claim the residents threw bottles or something to provoke them to action.
    Gah, I hope not. Last thing I want to see Clark doing is becoming a cop.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Morrison's "genius" wasn't in telling us Superman improved Metropolis, but in showing, notably by showing us that Metropolis was a pretty bad place.
    The issues I quoted do have people comment on the improvement of Metropolis in Byrne's run, but there were actual panels that showed what it was like. There are scenes of robberies and such, and clearly Secret Origin went into that much detail and more, placing the city's rejuvenation at the heart of the Johns' "genius" story.

    As for the contextualization of Superman's populism in "Truth"....I don't see it that way. True, he didn't choose to expose his identity and the motorcycle is more a choice dictated by circumstances. However, nobody forced him to come back . Nobody forced him to leave Alaska, nobody forced him to check on his neighbourhood, nobody forced him to go help with the Shadow Monster.
    Clark wanting to go back to Metropolis isn't specified as something he's doing to connect with the public, and fighting the Shadow Monster isn't about his populism or social justice either. I'm not saying it's not nice to see him be heroic, and caring about his neighborhood, but being heroic about cleaning up a mess that is his fault (in that it's about him) isn't exactly the same as him -- fully powered and dressed as Superman -- doing what one might sometimes see other Supermen do like charity events or, like his old self, pursuing social justice causes as Superman or Clark.

    What did are his opportunities of interactions with other people. And even then, it's less about how he interacts with other people and how other people interact with him.
    His opportunities have not changed. He could, as Superman, have interacted with the public before while being clothed as Superman or as Clark Kent. The interactions in this issue wouldn't be different between the public and Superman, for example. And as Clark, he could have interactions with people as a member of the community himself or as a concerned citizen/journalist caring about their story and wanting to use the power of the press to draw attention to issues facing regular people. Now, with his secret identity gone, I agree that he can in some ways have more honest interactions, since lies aren't involved. However, people will treat him differently, like a god, so he is essentially not "undercover" anymore, which could discourage less honesty from them instead of him in a kind of reversal. Lastly, he doesn't have the ability to write about them in ways that are meaningful to them and to him. In other words, I'm not sure that it's a net gain.

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