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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    Default Mark Waid's Flash

    just got done re-reading mark waid's flash for the first time in... well, probably since the 90s. some scattered thoughts/questions:

    1. i probably read through it too quickly, but: there was an arc where the mayor of keystone got fed up with wally and the flash had to set up shop in santa marta. seemed like he spent about 6-8 issues splitting time between both cities, then grant morrison/mark millar came aboard to do their year-long run. was wally getting run out of keystone ever resolved? for the life of me i can't remember, even if i just read it. too much flash intake at once, perhaps.

    2. there are many, many books where i could see pop mahn's art being horribly distracting, but for whatever reason i really dug it on his short stint.

    3. born to run, the return of barry allen, reckless youth, terminal velocity, dead heat, chain lightning, or 'other' -- what was your favorite arc? i loved all the mythos that were added during terminal velocity, but i'd have to say return of barry allen. it had been so long since i had read it i had actually forgotten the twist. well done.

    4. waid made it pretty clear that wally during his run was the fastest flash ever. i haven't been keeping up with the new 52 series, or really any flash comic since wally was put out of commission. i know impulse became flash for a little while, barry's back, yada yada -- is wally still considered the fastest flash, or has the mantle already been passed?

    5. the dark flash storyline was a somewhat anti-climatic ending to a pretty amazing run (nice final issue, though), but that was a baller suit.

    6. emergency stop, human race, black flash -- favorite morrison/millar mini-arc? i will also, of course, accept that wonderful jay garrick standalone issue with him and his terminally ill nemesis-turned-friend.

    7. i'm hard pressed to think of another run that started out with a hero i didn't particular care for, and ended with him being cemented as one of my favorite heroes of all time. i thought wally was a whiny tool for many a year after he took over as flash, but the evolution of his character should be considered textbook. bravo.
    Last edited by Adset; 06-06-2015 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    I've read (and own) most of Waid's run from his first issue through about 112, and then it's just an issue here and there after that. It's still darn good storytelling and character work, even all these years later. I'm thinking that even with all the solid stories Waid came up with, Return of Barry Allen is probably still my favorite too, followed by Terminal Velocity. And I love how the legacy aspect of the series became so prominent with Jay, Max and Johnny showing up often.
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  3. #3
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    just got done re-reading mark waid's flash for the first time in... well, probably since the 90s. some scattered thoughts/questions:

    1. i probably read through it too quickly, but: there was an arc where the mayor of keystone got fed up with wally and the flash had to set up shop in santa marta. seemed like he spent about 6-8 issues splitting time between both cities, then grant morrison/mark millar came aboard to do their year-long run. was wally getting run out of keystone ever resolved? for the life of me i can't remember, even if i just read it. too much flash intake at once, perhaps.
    Don't remember exactly, but I think Wally kind of got ok with the law in Keystone in the crossover between Flash, Green Lantern and Green Arrow. Might be a confused memory, though.

    2. there are many, many books where i could see pop mahn's art being horribly distracting, but for whatever reason i really dug it on his short stint.
    Yup.

    3. born to run, the return of barry allen, reckless youth, terminal velocity, dead heat, chain lightning, or 'other' -- what was your favorite arc? i loved all the mythos that were added during terminal velocity, but i'd have to say return of barry allen. it had been so long since i had read it i had actually forgotten the twist. well done.
    For me, I guess it's Chain Lightining. It's almost universally hated because of the "evil twin brother" plot and Wally going one on one with the AntiMonitor. Even I hate those things but seeing the Flash legacy pretty much materialize, with all those Flashes from all those times was just sheer awesomeness.

    4. waid made it pretty clear that wally during his run was the fastest flash ever. i haven't been keeping up with the new 52 series, or really any flash comic since wally was put out of commission. i know impulse became flash for a little while, barry's back, yada yada -- is wally still considered the fastest flash, or has the mantle already been passed?
    During Bart's short run, he was the only being on Earth connected to the speedforce; so he was basically faster than anyone ever because the others guys were in him, almost.

    Then we had the awful Flash:Rebirth, in which Barry is retconned to be the speedforce, be the creator of the SpeedForce and the one who feeds it, all of the same time. By those, not only was Barry the fastest ever then, he also always were and always would be, since all the other speedsters borrowed power from him; this not only takes the post away from wally, it retcons away the fact that Wally was once the fastetst, and also retcons away Bart's capability's at his time.

    You're better off ignoring that nonsense, though. Even DC did when they rebooted.

    5. the dark flash storyline was a somewhat anti-climatic ending to a pretty amazing run (nice final issue, though), but that was a baller suit.
    I thought it was ok.

    6. emergency stop, human race, black flash -- favorite morrison/millar mini-arc? i will also, of course, accept that wonderful jay garrick standalone issue with him and his terminally ill nemesis-turned-friend.

    7. i'm hard pressed to think of another run that started out with a hero i didn't particular care for, and ended with him being cemented as one of my favorite heroes of all time. i thought wally was a whiny tool for many a year after he took over as flash, but the evolution of his character should be considered textbook. bravo.
    Oh, the Jay Garrick issue. I love the Morrison Millar run, and if the focus was Wally I"d pick "The Human Race" because of the sheer absurdity of it.

    But that Jay Garrick issue was just too good!

  4. #4
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    I don't want to turn this thread into something else but is Waid's run better than Johns' initial run? I started reading Flash comics with Rebirth and I really want to get into some of the older books but there seems like a lot of stuff. Should I start with Waid?

  5. #5
    DC Enthusiast Tony's Avatar
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    I would start with issue one. I'm in the minority though as I stopped reading Flash during Waid's run. Normally like the guy but his stuff felt like retreads of older issues except things he added like the "speed force" which I hated. Waid made me finally quit the flash after loving it from Crisis.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Love Waid's run and he made me love Wally and think of him as THE Flash (even though I was already a Barry Allen fan, and I don't think I've ever loved him as much as in JLA Year One, also by Waid). I really didn't care much for Morrison and Millar's short run.
    Return of Barry Allen is without a doubt my favorite arc. The Dark Flash and Chain Lightning come next (both, sadly, never collected in trades). By creating the Speed Force and making Wally master it, he became a better Flash than Barry. When they brought back Barry, they couldn't allow it, so, to make Barry more prominent, they said that he was the one that generated the Speed Force, in effect, the source of all the speedsters powers (which, I'm sorry to say, still doesn't make much sense to me).

    Quote Originally Posted by TedKord View Post
    I don't want to turn this thread into something else but is Waid's run better than Johns' initial run? I started reading Flash comics with Rebirth and I really want to get into some of the older books but there seems like a lot of stuff. Should I start with Waid?
    Johns run is quite good (though, personally, I much prefer Waid's), but it's quite different from Waid's as it shifts the foccus to the classic villains, developing the Rogues like they never were before. Messener-Loebs (a fantastic run, though sadly very underappreciated) also gave us some great foccus on some of the Rogues, redeeming Piper, trying to do the same for Cold and his sister, giving us great stories of Grodd and Vandal Savage. Waid went in a different direction, focussing much more in developing Wally West as a character (adding on the great work already done by Messener-Loebs), making him his own man, a great hero in his own right, and giving him his own villains, instead of using Barry's. Johns took the development of the Rogues to a whole other level.

    Peace
    Last edited by Nomads1; 06-07-2015 at 08:55 AM.

  7. #7
    God Save The Queen! Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedKord View Post
    I don't want to turn this thread into something else but is Waid's run better than Johns' initial run? I started reading Flash comics with Rebirth and I really want to get into some of the older books but there seems like a lot of stuff. Should I start with Waid?
    Johns Flash run is primarily focused on The Rogues, Particularly his admitted man crush Captain Cold. Wally is almost a secondary character in his own book. Honestly the only Flash trade I would bother with by Johns is The Secret Life of Barry Allen. That has more of Flash focus.
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  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting to see an omnibus and trade for Waid's original run. I'm pretty sure most of Johns' run is collected in various trades relating to Flash, and I fully intend to get to them, but I'd also like to finally read Waid's Wally run .

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member hsalf's Avatar
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    I started reading Flash with Waid's run back in the day. So yeah, I really enjoyed his Flash stuff. I still remember trying to find all the back issues, as I started with the Dead Heat arc to catch up. Even the Millar/Morrsion run was pretty good and worth the read. The funny thing is I quit comics in late 99, about the time John's was set to take over. Since my return I've been reading his stuff, I like it as well. However it is definitely different than Waid's work as others have said.

    The New52 Flash has been a bit of a disappointment, they just changed stuff a bit to much. No Max, Jessie, Wally (the classic version), Jay, Bart...maybe someday DC will come to their senses and bring back the Flash family.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Oh, the Jay Garrick issue. I love the Morrison Millar run, and if the focus was Wally I"d pick "The Human Race" because of the sheer absurdity of it.

    But that Jay Garrick issue was just too good!
    Agreed, it's awesome.
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  11. #11
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    I started reading The Flash and collecting back issues when the TV series hit, so Messner-Loebs was still on the book. I really enjoyed a lot of his work, especially the arcs involving Vandal Savage and Wally's new suit. When Waid took over, though, it was magical. I love everything he did, but my favorite stories are "The Return of Barry Allen" and "Terminal Velocity." They cemented Wally as the Flash and were historic in that this was the first time a sidekick had finally not only taken up his mentor's mantle, but also, exceeded it and made it his own.

    I'd pay lots of money for a book with Waid and Wally set on an Earth where things happened a little differently with the twins.

  12. #12
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    LOVED Waid's run of Flash. Best ever, even more than Johns. Yep, I said it. Waid's introduction of the speed force, the cast of the speedsters in the book like Jay, Bart, Max, Jesse--it was so cool. Every storyarc of Waid's run was original and great: Speed Kills, Terminal Velocity, Dead Heat, Get Me to the Church on Time and my favorite-"Chain Lightning". I also loved the Dark Flash story, especially the ending. I really wish now that DC has the multiverse back that they would revisit Walter. This was one of the best scenes from that story and so heart wrenching:





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  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    The only problem I had with Waids run was that he focused so much on the Speed Force. It seemed like almost every story he wrote tied into it in some way after a while. I think after issue 110 it started going off track. When he got into the really bad stuff like Cobalt Blue and the future John Fox Flash stuff it really hit the ditch. I think "Dead Heat" was probably Waid's last really great storyline.

  14. #14
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Johns Flash run is primarily focused on The Rogues, Particularly his admitted man crush Captain Cold. Wally is almost a secondary character in his own book. Honestly the only Flash trade I would bother with by Johns is The Secret Life of Barry Allen. That has more of Flash focus.
    THIS! You described Johns run exactly. He focused more on the rogues, than Wally. Waid, on the other hand, focused on Wally, the Flash family and fleshed out the aspects of the speedforce.

    Don't get me wrong, I liked Johns Flash too, but Waid's was outstanding!
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    THIS! You described Johns run exactly. He focused more on the rogues, than Wally. Waid, on the other hand, focused on Wally, the Flash family and fleshed out the aspects of the speedforce.

    Don't get me wrong, I liked Johns Flash too, but Waid's was outstanding!
    Johns was pretty much the only writer in that Flash series to give focus to the villains.
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