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  1. #31
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Yeah, we've done this before, but let me just recall everyone that "Barry's dual identity issues" only exist if you take the words from Cobalt Blue at face value.

    A guy who hadn't any psychological training, never talked to Barry and, more, was insane and sort of an idiot.
    That's not enough because that was given to the readers to believe, even Wally (the protagonist) believed it.

    It should have been adressed at least in some way, not just forget about it, it's basic writing.

  2. #32
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Yeah, we've done this before, but let me just recall everyone that "Barry's dual identity issues" only exist if you take the words from Cobalt Blue at face value.

    A guy who hadn't any psychological training, never talked to Barry and, more, was insane and sort of an idiot.

    There were no dual identity issues,
    What also helps is that Cobalt Blue was never referred to again after that story ended.

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  3. #33
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    What also helps is that Cobalt Blue was never referred to again after that story ended.
    Because everyone realized how terrible of a creation he was and what he represented.

    I still wish that someone would have retconned what he established though.

  4. #34
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    That's not enough because that was given to the readers to believe, even Wally (the protagonist) believed it.

    It should have been adressed at least in some way, not just forget about it, it's basic writing.
    It's more than enough. Whenever a crazy person says something that makes no sense, the logical conclusion is that he said so because he's crazy. There never was any reason to go deeper into that, and it was also never "given to the reader to believe". I never believed him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    What also helps is that Cobalt Blue was never referred to again after that story ended.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Well yeah, exactly. Because it wasn't really "a thing".

    I still expect a new Cobalt Blue in the TV show, though. Eddie Thawne was just sucked by a black hole, and it's been 3 episodes that the background is blue whenever he appears.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Because everyone realized how terrible of a creation he was and what he represented.

    I still wish that someone would have retconned what he established though.
    Well, considering that Barry Allen's back story was basically totally retconned when they brought him back (which the TV series mirrored), I guess, at the end of the day, you got your wish.
    I still think Chain Lightning was quite a fun story, and I agree, that CB was such a nutjob that hardly anything that came out of his mouth coulb be taken at face value, including, IMHO, his "fraternal origins". As it was common in the old days, Waid told his story and left plenty of wriggle room for whoever came after him to tweak or change it, which nobody did.

    Peace

  6. #36
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    It's more than enough. Whenever a crazy person says something that makes no sense, the logical conclusion is that he said so because he's crazy. There never was any reason to go deeper into that, and it was also never "given to the reader to believe". I never believed him.
    Not it's not enough, no matter if the guy who says those things is apparently crazy because if that was the case, Snyder wouldn't have adressed the things that the Joker said in Death of the Family and Endgame at all, it's important.

    Even more if the protagonist actually believe them (which didn't even happen with Batman).

    EDIT: Also, I think many people are missing the point, the point is that Wally, the protagonist, OUR POINT OF PERSPECTIVE believed those things.

    And he never received an answer about it.

  7. #37
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    It's comic books no speed force required that's just what they went with. Beats Superboy punch for Jason Todd
    Well, yeah but it would have been a lot harder to bring him back. The speed force made it easy is what I'm saying.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    It's more than enough. Whenever a crazy person says something that makes no sense, the logical conclusion is that he said so because he's crazy. There never was any reason to go deeper into that, and it was also never "given to the reader to believe". I never believed him.
    Neither did I

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Well yeah, exactly. Because it wasn't really "a thing".

    I still expect a new Cobalt Blue in the TV show, though. Eddie Thawne was just sucked by a black hole, and it's been 3 episodes that the background is blue whenever he appears.
    I never thought about that. Could be. I think though that Eddie is going to end up being a speedster of some sort.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

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  9. #39
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Not it's not enough, no matter if the guy who says those things is apparently crazy because if that was the case, Snyder wouldn't have adressed the things that the Joker said in Death of the Family and Endgame at all, it's important.

    Even more if the protagonist actually believe them (which didn't even happen with Batman).
    Snyder chose to address the Joker's bs. This is not a mandatory storytelling rule.

    EDIT: Also, I think many people are missing the point, the point is that Wally, the protagonist, OUR POINT OF PERSPECTIVE believed those things.

    And he never received an answer about it.
    Well, yeah. Then he shook it off, because it was not worthit paying attention to. Readers should follow.

  10. #40
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    I never thought about that. Could be.
    It's been my bet since the first EP. He's either going to be a new take on Zolomon (I'll make you better by showing loss, bla bla bla) or he's gonna be a new take in Cobalt Blue (you stole my life, bla bla bla).

    But being that he's a Thawne, in the present, my bet is Cobalt Blue.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    I think my favorite single issue of Waid's run was the issue in which Wally says Johnny Quick's speed mantra, and gets so fast it's like the world stopped for him. An intresting issue, with a cool spin on things and nice art from Mike Wieringo, which, IMHO, pretty much sums up Waid's run.

    Peace

  12. #42
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    I got to about issue 10 of the new 52 books that I was reading and I havn't read any issues since. I really haven't had much money but I buy an occasional trad here and there of older stuff. Once again, I'm off-topic but where is Wally in the New 52?

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedKord View Post
    I got to about issue 10 of the new 52 books that I was reading and I havn't read any issues since. I really haven't had much money but I buy an occasional trad here and there of older stuff. Once again, I'm off-topic but where is Wally in the New 52?
    He's appeared in the new Flash series slightly altered.
    BB

  14. #44
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    He's appeared in the new Flash series slightly altered.
    "Slightly?"

    Oh boy....

  15. #45
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Snyder chose to address the Joker's bs. This is not a mandatory storytelling rule.
    Well, it might as well be. It means that you adressed all the points you wanted to adress without leaving any plot-point or sub-plot unresolved.

    Again, it's basic writing to create a satisfying read.

    Well, yeah. Then he shook it off, because it was not worthit paying attention to. Readers should follow.
    No because Wally didn't get over it, he just forgot about it which is a sign that the writer also did.

    And readers shouldn't ignore it because it's another flaw in a story full of them.

    Chain Lightning had bad characterization, a weak antagonist, awkward pacing and many ideas that never came together but one of the worst things was its poor plannification for simply making the main character forget something that actually affected him without any development to justify it.

    Saying that readers should "shake it off" means that they should accept bad writing and I'm sorry but I won't accept that.

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