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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Default Superhero Pairings

    When it comes to Superhero relationships. What are come couples you prefer?

    To start, I'd like discuss which pairing people prefer Raven x Wally or Raven x Beast Boy

    Raven x Wally was my ship from the New Teen Titans days but they never pulled the trigger on a relationship. Wally hooked up with Linda Park and just never went back to the TT after COIE.

    Raven x Beast Boy came out during Geoff Johns 2003 run on the TT and it seemed to bleed over into the TT tv show Cartoon Network was doing at the time. I never understood the attraction Raven and Gar had, mostly because I haven't finished reading the 2003 TT (busy with JSA atm). If someone wouldn't mind explaining it to me that would be great.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I never even realized Wally and Raven was a thing. Was it hinted at much in the books? I'm not a big Teen Titan guy so I'm ignorant on a lot of their lore.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member jules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I never even realized Wally and Raven was a thing. Was it hinted at much in the books? I'm not a big Teen Titan guy so I'm ignorant on a lot of their lore.
    It was something that teetered on the brink of becoming a relationship from when the New Teen Titans team was formed right up until Wally left. But Raven manipulated him mentally in order to persuade him to join the team in the first place, and part of that was making him infatuated with her. So after that all came out he was never quite sure whether any feelings he had for her were real or manufactured, and was a bit wary in consequence.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char Aznable View Post
    Raven x Beast Boy came out during Geoff Johns 2003 run on the TT and it seemed to bleed over into the TT tv show Cartoon Network was doing at the time. I never understood the attraction Raven and Gar had, mostly because I haven't finished reading the 2003 TT (busy with JSA atm). If someone wouldn't mind explaining it to me that would be great.
    It's was probably the other way around with John's using the idea from the cartoon to pair the two in the comics... and then proceed to do nothing with it, never explained it either. As some may know, Raven and Beastboy were never an item in the NTT days, actually they were probably the two most distant from one another with the exception of Evil Raven 'seeding' him during the NTT's twilight years. So seeing these two drift towards one another just seemed really odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I never even realized Wally and Raven was a thing. Was it hinted at much in the books? I'm not a big Teen Titan guy so I'm ignorant on a lot of their lore.
    In a strange kind of way it was. Basically Raven manipulated Wally's feelings making him fall for her, hard, making him join the New Teen Titans despite him wanting out of the superhero gig. Partially she did it to save his life, and partially because she needed his help. Thing is though, even when the enchantment Raven had over Wally was well and truly broken, Wally didn't actually stop liking her even if he tried to tell everyone, himself and her included and he repeatedly came to her rescue when it was needed.

    At least there was some homage to this old coupling in the pages of Wally's Flash run once or twice.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jules View Post
    It was something that teetered on the brink of becoming a relationship from when the New Teen Titans team was formed right up until Wally left. But Raven manipulated him mentally in order to persuade him to join the team in the first place, and part of that was making him infatuated with her. So after that all came out he was never quite sure whether any feelings he had for her were real or manufactured, and was a bit wary in consequence.
    Yep, that's a good summary of the way I remember Wolfman and Perez handling it in their classic "The New Teen Titans" run. I think I'll reminisce a bit to fill in some details for Sacred Knight or anyone else who isn't familiar with the old material from the early 1980s, but might be interested in hearing about the history between Raven and Wally West!

    Here's some of what happened in the first issue of "New Teen Titans" (published in 1980, and featuring the first time Dick Grayson and some of the other veteran Titans ever met Starfire, Raven, and Cyborg, all in the same night).

    Raven teleports into Dick Grayson's room as he awakens from a nightmare, and admits she's recently been sending him certain dreams to prepare him for what's coming. It's time for the Teen Titans (disbanded some months earlier, we gather) to ride again! Then she abruptly picks up his phone (without bothering to dial anything), hands it to him, and Wally West is already on the other end of the call, having apparently answered his phone when it rang, so that he thinks Dick is the one who called him. Dick mentions the Titans schtick, and Wally immediately makes it clear that he just isn't interested. Dick says to Raven something like this: "You heard the man. It's no go." Raven takes it calmly, saying something to the effect that she'll speak to Wallace herself.

    A few pages later, as Dick is recruiting Wonder Girl (Donna Troy) and Changeling (Gar Logan), Wally West (now in his Kid Flash outfit) suddenly runs up and makes it clear he's changed his mind after talking to Raven. She also told him where he could find the others. We gather that Raven, in a scene we never actually saw, had teleported her way over to Wally's residence and somehow persuaded him that he really wanted to be a Titan.

    As I recall: In the next few issues, it was already being made crystal-clear that a) Wally had felt a sudden fascination with Raven (in a romantic sort of way) as soon as he laid eyes on her, and b) Wally, not being a total fool, had soon come to realize, as he thought about his own sudden about-face, that it was quite possible that Raven had used some of her spooky powers to manipulate his emotions in order to get him to sign up with the revamped Teen Titans so he could stay close to her.

    I believe that by the time the Titans first defeated Trigon (in #6 of that series), Raven had pretty much admitted that she had, in fact, meddled with Wally's emotions because she'd had a prescient dream warning her that a certain collection of young heroes absolutely had to be working together to beat Trigon -- and just incidentally, she had also known they'd have to fight and defeat several members of the Justice League along the way! Wally's super-speed would be essential.

    For a few years after that, Wally had a very awkward relationship with Raven. (And I use the word "relationship" in the loosest possible sense of social contact between two people -- I don't mean they were sleeping together, or even going out on regular dates, such as "dinner and a movie.") Remember, Wally was consciously aware of what she had done, and also of her reason (literally to save the world from Trigon, which is a pretty good excuse for taking drastic measures!), and he seems to have forgiven her . . . and still felt somewhat attracted to her . . . but it was in a very uneasy way, and I don't think she was giving him a heck of a lot of encouragement.

    After brooding for a long time, as a sort of running subplot, about such things as "how do I really feel about Raven?" and "am I really happy hanging out with the Titans and repeatedly coming to the brink of death instead of concentrating on my college education?", Wally finally made up his mind that he was quitting the team. (That was in "New Teen Titans #39," so readers who'd been with the series all along had basically been waiting for over three years for him to stop brooding and make a real decision on the subject! Although it probably had been less than a year from his in-character point of view.)

    Come to think of it: Off the top of my head, I'm not even sure if the two of them ever shared a single kiss in the Wolfman/Perez years. (As opposed to the way Dick Grayson and Koriand'r were smooching at the drop of a hat, and were eventually established to have gone a lot further than just hugging and kissing.)
    Last edited by Lorendiac; 02-16-2015 at 08:34 AM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    NTT was a trove of pairing ships. Raven in the early days would hide all of her emotions but would constantly says in her mind that she wanted connect with people. Being an empath didn't help matter. Raven in NTT had legitimate feelings for Wally and later Dick. Being an empath she could sense/feel what was inside their hearts and they had traits/values that she admired. I don't think Wally and Raven ever came out and told eachother that they wanted eachother. COIE happened and Wally left the team permantly to become the Flash.

    It's funny to hear Geoff Johns created something (Gar X Raven) but essentially did nothing with it. I think the only reason Gar and Raven hooked up was because they were the only OG members left on the Titans. Dick, Donna, Vick, Wally, Roy and Tempest were all gone and doing different things.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char Aznable View Post
    When it comes to Superhero relationships. What are come couples you prefer?
    Since you posted this on a DC forum, I'm going to assume your focus is on pairings of DC characters. Off the top of my head, here are some personal favorites. (Bearing in mind that sometimes I really liked a romance "in the old days," but I don't necessarily want to see it happen "all over again" in this day and age!)

    1. Dick Grayson (Robin, then Nightwing) and Koriand'r (Starfire) in the early 1980s.

    2. Donna Troy and Terry Long (began in the same Wolfman/Perez run) until it was torn apart.

    3. Bruce Wayne and Vicki Vale (early-to-mid 1980s).

    4. Batman and Wonder Woman in the DCAU, but not in the comics.

    5. Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) and Question (Vic Sage) in the DCAU, but not in the comics.

    6. Back in the Giffen/DeMatteis era of the JLI, there seemed to be something going on between Fire (Beatriz da Costa) and Oberon. I thought that was cute, for some reason. Off the top of my head, I don't recall just when and why they broke up (if it even happened onstage?).

    7. I'm also reasonably fond of the long and happy marriage between Elongated Man and his wife Sue, although I didn't get around to reading reprints of their Silver Age material until after Sue had already been slaughtered in "Identity Crisis."

    8. Earth-Two Batman and Earth-Two Catwoman from the Pre-COIE version of the DC Multiverse. (Alan Brennert wrote a superb story for "Brave and the Bold #197" to show how the two of them had finally wound up together.)

    9. And somehow I almost forgot to mention my fondness for the Lightning Lad/Saturn Girl romance, and eventual marriage, from the original Legion of Super-Heroes continuity!

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    How about Superman's relationships?

    Clark x Wonder Woman is happening now BUT

    What about Clark x Lois and Clark x Lana?

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Right now I prefer Clark and Diana. Its the least explored, and I never really considered it a realistic option in main continuity since they were always shy to give it the greenlight, but now that they have I'm having tons of fun with it.

    Its the easy answer, but I still prefer Bruce with Selina. It may be a damaged pairing as all hell but nonetheless its the only character whom they've ever been able to sell me that Bruce genuinely was in love with.

    Superboy and Miss Martian was all kinds of cute, but I have to wait for her to even be used in the New 52 to have any hope to ever see that translate to the comics.

  10. #10
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    Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Hawkgirl (Shayera Hol).

  11. #11
    The Winged Wonder Hawkman's Avatar
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    Hawkman and Hawkgirl, naturally. That's really the only one. Superman and Lois, too, to an extent, but whereas the latter have historically had their fair share of ups and downs, Hawkman and Hawkgirl should just be a given.
    Batman: I need your help finding a man named Vulko.
    Hawkman: You want him dead or alive?
    - Justice League #17

  12. #12
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char Aznable View Post
    How about Superman's relationships?

    Clark x Wonder Woman is happening now BUT

    What about Clark x Lois and Clark x Lana?
    I've long "taken for granted" the Clark x Lois romance, but I can't say I'm wildly enthusiastic about it at this point. I think I'll paste in something I said a few years ago on the subject of how the "Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, but Superman never tells her he's also Clark" dynamic actually worked in the Silver Age.

    ________________________________________________

    I was reading one of the Showcase volumes that reprint Supes’s Silver Age tales in black and white, and it seemed to me that Lois’s motives in wondering about his secret ID were fluctuating from story to story within the same volume!

    If memory serves, there was at least one story in which she was clearly planning to run the story as a front-page headline if she could get definite proof of Superman’s secret ID.

    In another story in the same volume, it was made clear that she wanted to know the secret for her personal satisfaction, but wouldn’t try to reveal it to a few billion other people, because she wanted to prove to Superman that he could trust her to keep her mouth shut if they ever got married!

    So it appeared to me that the various writers contributing to “Superman” and “Action Comics” at that time hadn’t managed to all get on the same page regarding exactly what Lois thought she was going to do with that juicy tidbit of information if she ever managed to confirm her suspicions.

    I found myself with a whole new sympathy for the Pre-Crisis Superman's notorious unwillingness to just break down and tell her everything. Given Lois Lane's wild mood swings on this subject, is it really any surprise that Silver Age Clark was extremely reluctant to open up to her by sharing all his secrets when he could never be sure if she'd regard it as a romantic gesture on the one hand, something that should be treated as a sacred trust . . . or see it as her ticket to a Pulitzer Prize on the other?

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Any love for Joker x Harley still? With New 52 Harley and the Post-Crisis Harley moving away from the Joker before the 2011 reboot; it seems to be one of those taboo ships. Domestic violence and what not.

    Rereading old 90's Batman comics and watching the old show there is something oddly charming about them.


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  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    For all its abusive undertones and reality, JokerxHarley can also be a fun and cute relationship. Mad Love indeed .

    I'm a big romance fan and that definitely extends to the comics. Some of my favorite pairings:

    - Superman and Lois Lane

    - Batman and Catwoman

    - Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor

    - Aquaman and Mera

    - Barry Allen and Iris West

    - Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris

    - Hawkman and Hawkgirl

    - Green Arrow and Black Canary

    - Wally West and Artemis Crock

    - Dick Grayson and Starfire (Batgirl/Barbara can work too)

    - Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl

    And there are probably more that I'm forgetting right now. As far as current relationships are concerned, I like Superman and Wonder Woman together, more than I expected, even if I'd prefer to see Lois in that role and I like Patty even if her entire role in Flash when it gets down to is be the love interest that prevents Barry from getting with Iris.

    And there are probably more relationships for me to get into as a I read more into DC comics .

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul View Post
    Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Hawkgirl (Shayera Hol).
    Same. My number one superhero pairing.

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