Controversial X-Men Opinons II

[sid vicious]

Cannonball aside, the New Mutants are pretty crappy characters.

I can understand that somebody don't like the New Mutants characters but i don't think lot of people share this opinion.
The original run of NM was great (i mean until Lefield messed up everything) with really appealing characters, not that powerfull and reacting like normal teenagers.

Since then, few of theses NM got a real chance to shine except Cannonball and Wolfsbane. From my point of view, only Rahne benefited good development thanks to Peter David mostly.

NM vol3 was great until Zeb Wells was replaced by uninspired DnA and then canceled. Again, it seems that theses characters are doomed to limbo.

Recently, Magik has leading role in UXM but with poor characterization, like she's just a good substitude of the blackbird !

[GallowGlass]

1. I want Jean Grey back.

2. There are almost no student aged mutants that I give a crap about. The last interesting one, IMO, was Armor (Hisako).

3. I can accept the idea that Grant Morrison's run all those years ago could have (and should have) been the end of the series.

4. Rogue is totally over rated. I have never found her all that interesting. Ever.

Forgot one!

5. Magik sucks. The best thing she ever did for the series is die from the Legacy virus.

What? Just...What? Controversial is right.

[jazzflower92]

I think X-Men has too many Japanese characters and not enough Asian male characters put into focus.

[Cold Water]

From my point of view, only Rahne benefited good development thanks to Peter David mostly.

You're goddamn right.

[CSTowle]

I cannot even believe you said this.
How can anyone read Claremont's New Mutants and not find it to be one of the best comic series ever, it's completely beyond me.
I love all those characters. Some more than others, but still: LOVE.

I love PAD's X-Factor run (the last, not the current which is good so far but it's too soon to judge) and the idea was basically to take the crappiest cast-off characters in the X-universe and make an interesting team out of them. He succeeded, and many of them probably gained fans who hadn't had many before the run, but they're still pretty crappy characters. So too with the New Mutants. One of my favorite comic stories of all time is the crossover with the X-Men in New Mutants Special Edition #1 with the Uncanny Annual #9 where the teams head to Asgard.

To give another example, Rob Liefeld's Supreme. He was a white haired "extreme" Superman clone. I'm not even a fan of Superman, let alone Rob Liefeld's Superman clone, but when Alan Moore wrote the book it became (like the New Mutants Asgard saga) one of my favorite comic series of all time. I enjoyed the Gen-X team, the New X-Men team, and even the Gen-Hope team more than the New Mutants as characters overall. Granted they had the benefit of fixing mistakes that had come before, but I still enjoy reading about many of the characters on those teams than I do any New Mutants character. But that's my opinion, and apparently a controversial one.

[sid vicious]

I love PAD's X-Factor run (the last, not the current which is good so far but it's too soon to judge) and the idea was basically to take the crappiest cast-off characters in the X-universe and make an interesting team out of them. He succeeded, and many of them probably gained fans who hadn't had many before the run, but they're still pretty crappy characters. So too with the New Mutants. One of my favorite comic stories of all time is the crossover with the X-Men in New Mutants Special Edition #1 with the Uncanny Annual #9 where the teams head to Asgard.

To give another example, Rob Liefeld's Supreme. He was a white haired "extreme" Superman clone. I'm not even a fan of Superman, let alone Rob Liefeld's Superman clone, but when Alan Moore wrote the book it became (like the New Mutants Asgard saga) one of my favorite comic series of all time. I enjoyed the Gen-X team, the New X-Men team, and even the Gen-Hope team more than the New Mutants as characters overall. Granted they had the benefit of fixing mistakes that had come before, but I still enjoy reading about many of the characters on those teams than I do any New Mutants character. But that's my opinion, and apparently a controversial one.

please, could you define what is a good or a "crappy" character ?

in my case, i like when my favorite fictionnals characters look "humans". you know, not absolutely smarts, tolerants ...etc, not idiots but just not too "perfects" !

[Sutekh]

I think X-Men has too many Japanese characters and not enough Asian male characters put into focus.

Need to see more Collective Man. "Blah, blah Juggernaut unmovable, blah!" "One billion strong punch, fool. Say hello to the International Space Station on the way by."

[Project Initiative Cascada]

I can understand that somebody don't like the New Mutants characters but i don't think lot of people share this opinion.
The original run of NM was great (i mean until Lefield messed up everything) with really appealing characters, not that powerfull and reacting like normal teenagers.

Since then, few of theses NM got a real chance to shine except Cannonball and Wolfsbane. From my point of view, only Rahne benefited good development thanks to Peter David mostly.

NM vol3 was great until Zeb Wells was replaced by uninspired DnA and then canceled. Again, it seems that theses characters are doomed to limbo.

Recently, Magik has leading role in UXM but with poor characterization, like she's just a good substitude of the blackbird !

I disagree. Peter David may have given Rahne more exposure, but he ruined her by making her a generic religious homophobic murderer.

Also Bendis is doing great things with Magik. Her personality remains to be dark but she is also entertaining as heck. She is the standout of UXM so far.

[sid vicious]

I disagree. Peter David may have given Rahne more exposure, but he ruined her by making her a generic religious homophobic murderer.

Also Bendis is doing great things with Magik. Her personality remains to be dark but she is also entertaining as heck. She is the standout of UXM so far.

In fact, Pad had to fix Rahne after Kyle and Yost X-Force mess. he's not totaly responsible of the evolution of this character when you know that the guy is very respectfull of continuity. Still, the religious and probably homophobic aspects correspond with the characteration of Rahne.
but when you consider it, most of X-Factor members didn't were that perfects neither (Guido was homophobic too, Shatterstar too candid, Monet too bitchy ... etc) and their interactions were absolutely great !

About Magik, i concede that Bendis very slow paced developments doesn't help.

[Sutekh]

In fact, Pad had to fix Rahne after Kyle and Yost X-Force mess. he's not totaly responsible of the evolution of this character when you know that the guy is very respectfull of continuity. Still, the religious and probably homophobic aspects correspond with the characteration of Rahne.

Still, it's amusing that one of the only characters in modern comics even *remotely* motivated by religious thought or upbringing, is called 'generic.' Can it be generic if it's actually rare, and darn near unique? Isn't that the exact opposite of 'generic?'

And Rahne's reaction to Rictor's relationship with Shatterstar was, like Guido's, ten thousand times more nuanced and interesting than the blithe accepting zombie-like non-reaction that most characters give off. Same with Santo kind of freaking out a little bit at the revelation that Victor / Anole was gay, in New X-Men.

IMO, a timid lack of reaction (can't have the intellectual property act like a person and possibly say something not vetted by marketing! Unless it's a villain, or, like USAgent or Guy Gardner, a 'token jerk' who can say anything.), the fear of showing any sort of process of discovery, or people learning to accept something that they've newly learned about someone, undermines the whole point of having a gay (minority, etc.) character in a story. Why even have a character be gay at all, if they are never going to reflect anything about the experience of being gay, because the writers are terrified of controversy? Might as well paint Tony Stark black and pretend he now represents African-Americans, despite never ever having anyone notice or react in any way differently to this sudden change.

Deeply personal revelations like that *should* affect a character's life, and relationships, or else it's meaningless pandering, IMO. Other characters *should* react, and not all superhumanly perfectly. What kind of 'coming out' would it be if, after years of agonizing over it, a characters friends and family were like, 'Eh. I know this is terribly important to you, and has shaken the core of your self-identity, and is a huge deal that you've given much thought to and are deeply concerned about, but none of us really give a crap about you and your dramatic journey of self-discovery or whatever.'

[The_Greatest_Username]

Cannonball aside, the New Mutants are pretty crappy characters.

I appreciate you sharing an actually controversial opinion.
Just out of curiosity, what makes Cannonball a good character in comparison to the other New Mutants?

[Cold Water]

I disagree. Peter David may have given Rahne more exposure, but he ruined her by making her a generic religious homophobic murderer.

What? No he didn't. Claremont did. Have you read Claremont's New Mutants? Well, not the murder part, but the homophobic religious part? Yeah. Pretty sure she was like that during Claremont's run.

[BlitheringToot]

I can't imagine so many males living in the mansion over the decades falling for plain old Jean Grey (she's portrayed as being pretty, but not any prettier than every other female superhero) when you have a woman like Storm living in the mansion. You have a "schism" over a dead redhead when a live goddess (who, by the way, can't read your mind) is there? I just don't get it.

First off, who doesn't like a redhead?

Secondly, remember that when the X-Men started, she was the ONLY girl in the school. Of course Scott, Warren, Hank and even Bobby (not to mention Charles--GACK!) are going to be googly-eyed over her.

As for Jean vs. Storm, I agree that on paper Storm is more appealing (although some guys might have been put off by her "I AM A GODDESS!" attitude), but let's look at who was digging Jean: Wolverine. Wolverine, who has serious hang-ups over redheads (Rose, Heather Hudson, etc., etc.). Yes, he probably did want to get with Storm as well (he was pretty darned pleased when he saw her getting out of the swimming pool that time), but he simply couldn't resist a fiery ginger.

[Project Initiative Cascada]

What? No he didn't. Claremont did. Have you read Claremont's New Mutants? Well, not the murder part, but the homophobic religious part? Yeah. Pretty sure she was like that during Claremont's run.

When was she ever homophobic in Claremont's New a Mutants era?

[Cold Water]

When was she ever homophobic in Claremont's New a Mutants era?

Sorry, my pre-coffee posting confused me. I guess she wasn't?
I'm still reading his run. She sure was an ass to Magik several times, but that's not the same thing.
It was bad enough, though.