Ultimate End #2 SPOILERS

[Alastor]

spoilers:

- issue opens with the pages from the preview, Hawkeye gets fried by the Thors - Ultimate Tony visits his 616 counterpart, leading to my favorite part of the issue: 616 Tony confronting Ultimate Tony about his alcoholism, after which Ultimate Tony tosses his flask out of the window and the two of them start working on a solution for their dimensional problem - it is implies that Doom might just erase the merged Manhattan and create it over again, as he has done with other territories before - 616 Peter has dinner with Ultimate Aunt May and Gwen, not really anything going on that we haven't seen before in Spider-Men - Ultimate Punisher is incarcerated at Ryker's and we get a nod to Ultimate Spider-Man Annual #2 with him killing a crook, when suddenly Ultimate (Gray) Hulk crashes in there, leading to a breakout - Ultimate Hulk is fighting a green Hulk, apparently someone else than Doc Green - Ultimate Fury and 616 Maria Hill assess the situation and deploy the remaining heroes, including the Ultimates, Avengers, All-New X-Men, Fantastic Four etc. - issue ends with Ultimate Punisher escaping on a boat and the heroes heading for Ryker's

end of spoilers

The conversation between the two Tonys is easily my favorite aspect of the issue. The plot points feel a little disjointed and there are still lots of questions unanswered, but the plot seems to be picking up the pace.

[Godzilla2099]

The issue was alright.

I personally found the scene with Tonys a little weak. I think 616 Tony would be intelligent enough to realize that his Ultimate Version would be able to walk into his lab since they technically share the same DNA.

The beginning was my favorite part. I literally laughed at the scene. Glad to see Thor(s) is boss and not fodder. Hawkeye is Cartman/Kenny hybrid. Runs the mouth and learns the hard way. I also liked the 'reunion' scene with Peter/Gwen/May and Two Hulks fighting is always entertaining.

[sifighter]

I'm confused about one thing, where did this Hulk come from? I mean it can't be Doc Green because we saw Doc Green last issue and in the opening of this one, but if it had come from Greenland wouldn't the Thors have stopped it because of the whole Borders thing. So is this our All-new Hulk or did Bendis screw up?

[Hariel0079]

I'm confused about one thing, where did this Hulk come from? I mean it can't be Doc Green because we saw Doc Green last issue and in the opening of this one, but if it had come from Greenland wouldn't the Thors have stopped it because of the whole Borders thing. So is this our All-new Hulk or did Bendis screw up?

Well you got an area called Greenland which is all Hulks down to the creatures (SW Tie-In PLanet HULK) Hell in Attilan rising a group of hulks walk into the club the quiet room. You also have Doc Green aiding Steve Rogers in Planet Hulk.

[sifighter]

Well you got an area called Greenland which is all Hulks down to the creatures (SW Tie-In PLanet HULK) Hell in Attilan rising a group of hulks walk into the club the quiet room. You also have Doc Green aiding Steve Rogers in Planet Hulk.

I know about all that, I'm just trying to guess where this Hulk came from. I suppose those are all possible places the Hulk could have come from. Either way I'm just interested in whatever is going on.

[Anubhavkumarc]

C'mon Bendis why do you have to be always a build up then let down guy?
And why did you not use Doc Green VS Ultimate Grey Hulk?

[jackolover]

I know about all that, I'm just trying to guess where this Hulk came from. I suppose those are all possible places the Hulk could have come from. Either way I'm just interested in whatever is going on.

Hulks have been illegally crossing borders, so this green Hulk could be one of those.

[jackolover]

I think the 616 Tony is way different to Superior Iron Man or post Fear Itself drunkard Iron Man. This Tony must have been before Fear Itself at least, where he had been sober for years.

[jackolover]

There is no real clue as to why the Thors showed up, whether there are listening devices or computer surveillance, but they showed up, and just started making pronouncements on Dooms behalf. Hawkeye from 616 didn't like it, and a Thor burnt him to a crisp. Everyone else was just astonished, but got on with life after as if nothing had happened, so I'm thinking this has been going on a long time and they are used to this.

Peter from 616 finally gets up the courage to visit Ultimate Aunt May and Gwen, and introduce himself, which is cute, but loses some immersion in each other's business. They don't seem to connect, and realise they have come from two different worlds.

The two Tonys connect and start to discuss surveillance, and how to get around it. This sounds interesting.

I am now thinking that it has taken years to get to this stage, and not just that the Last Incursion happened yesterday, because Maria Hill from 616 is already amalgamated into Ultimate Fury's Triskelion, so years must have passed. It seems Green Hulk has had a beef with Grey Hulk and came crashing through an overpopulated Raft prison, releasing the Punisher, who was in issue 1 sighting heros in a fight 3 weeks from now. Then a swarm of Heroes join Fury's Hulk Buster squad trying to stop the Hulks from fighting, while Punisher gets away in a speed boat.

I'm not sure I was pleased with the way this story has gone, except it puts the region in recent times, not the distant past. But we get no resolution as to the Thors showing up, or why the portal has now become a non-issue.

All we can say is that some unification issues were resolved, and others have been opened up. Death is not that surprising because 616 Tony mentions he has lost a second friend. The heroes are definately whipped in regards to Doom, and I was impressed with Hawkeye rejecting Dooms authority, to be severely dealt with by the Thors. It reminds me of what the What If? Civil War would have looked like if that story was told with an army of Thors controlling all the heroes.

[Byakko]

That non-Phoenix-Force Cyclops pretty much screws with my head. I was kinda operating on the 'one per franchise' rule with variations to some degree, but he existing clearly shows copies from the same universe from different points-in-time is a thing. I can't even tell if they are 'copies' made by Doom, or the real ones that he simply pluck out from a later point-in-time instead of the present.

It could be the 'portal' is not an issue because it's a convenient 'plot device'. Here you have two Tonys who are obviously not happy with being each other's counterparts. This is weird because what we've seen so far suggests that, by either long-term conditioning or mental conditioning, people don't find their own counterparts that surprising at all. Heck, in the Ultimate End #3 preview, we have a Storm-Thor and regular Storm facing each other with no questions.

So in this 'plotline', having a counterpart is considered 'weird'. But if this was a Tony from another domain simply visiting this domain, would then it be 'weird' and 'not normal'?

[RLAAMJR.]

Does this issue confirm that the only 616 survivors are those who got into the life raft?

[Drakeon]

Does this issue confirm that the only 616 survivors are those who got into the life raft?

Pretty much yeah. Exactly as I thought from the beginning.

[RLAAMJR.]

Pretty much yeah. Exactly as I thought from the beginning.

Waaaaa. My blazing interest on Secret Wars has come to an end. Marvel, please make 616 Storm live. I dont want any other versions of her replacing the real 616.

[jackolover]

That non-Phoenix-Force Cyclops pretty much screws with my head. I was kinda operating on the 'one per franchise' rule with variations to some degree, but he existing clearly shows copies from the same universe from different points-in-time is a thing. I can't even tell if they are 'copies' made by Doom, or the real ones that he simply pluck out from a later point-in-time instead of the present.

It could be the 'portal' is not an issue because it's a convenient 'plot device'. Here you have two Tonys who are obviously not happy with being each other's counterparts. This is weird because what we've seen so far suggests that, by either long-term conditioning or mental conditioning, people don't find their own counterparts that surprising at all. Heck, in the Ultimate End #3 preview, we have a Storm-Thor and regular Storm facing each other with no questions.

So in this 'plotline', having a counterpart is considered 'weird'. But if this was a Tony from another domain simply visiting this domain, would then it be 'weird' and 'not normal'?

I don't think so. That's been my bug bear about boundary jumping causing problems, because I don't think it does. These heroes are aware of doppelgangers so I don't see them have a problem meeting other duplicates, like Peter Parker didn't meeting May and Gwen. It was a bit awkward, but nobody decided they have to tear down Doom.

[jackolover]

Can anybody name all the heroes flying to Raft on the last page?

Well we know that the green Hulk punching Grey Hulk is not Doc Green, because no Mohawk or beard. Does this mean this is one of those Hulks jumping boundaries?

And 616 Iron Man is in the Red and Gold again, yet 3 weeks later, in SW#1, he's fighting in the Silver Superior Armor.

The ones the Thors encountered were the 616 heroes, not the UU heroes, so 616 Hawkeye is now dead.