Ultimate End #2 SPOILERS

[Hariel0079]

You can keep telling yourself that hut it doesnt makr it true.

The issue itself says otherwise. This is all a recreation. Characters included.

Whoever wasnt on the liferaft is dead. Its just that simple.

Nope, hickman confirmed it a while back in an interveiw and it was revealed in SW#3 that those are not copies.

As for the no JGS X-men, think about the x-men BMB focused on during his run of the X-books.

[SpeedofLife]

This whole endevour was poorly executed by Marvel. I mean, Secret Wars had a whole page dedicated to "RIP 616 AND 1610" (after showing the two world colliding and breaking apart), and then a week later releases a book that that says it features a domain that is a merging of the two. How could that not be confusing for people? Not to mention how irrelevant "Manhattan" feels. About half of the Battleworld domains are versions of NYC already, so just having a relatively straightforward Manhattan feels pretty silly.

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again - Secret Wars #1 should have been Ultimate End. 4 or 5 issues of the final incursion, with heroes from both universes fighting to survive? Now that would have been cool, and served as fitting end to both universes.

[Joe Acro]

And 616 Iron Man is in the Red and Gold again, yet 3 weeks later, in SW#1, he's fighting in the Silver Superior Armor.

Secret Wars #1 doesn't matter, as we know this is set after that. So I think you mean Ultimate End #1. That sequence is also interesting because it includes an Ultimate Hawkeye.

[Biclopcicle]

You can keep telling yourself that hut it doesnt makr it true.

The issue itself says otherwise. This is all a recreation. Characters included.

Whoever wasnt on the liferaft is dead. Its just that simple.

Strange says in SW#3 that Battleworld is made up of incursion points, not recreations. Otherwise why would Doom and Strange have to resynchronize history with recreations?

[Joe Acro]

Strange says in SW#3 that Battleworld is made up of incursion points, not recreations. Otherwise why would Doom and Strange have to resynchronize history with recreations?

Though it was also said that they saved what they could and created what they couldn't. That alone might account for certain characters (like Spider-Man and Cyclops) being in this mini: they created them because they thought they should be there and were unable to save them.

[Drakeon]

Strange says in SW#3 that Battleworld is made up of incursion points, not recreations. Otherwise why would Doom and Strange have to resynchronize history with recreations?

Im not convinced thats what that means in this case. Ultinate End says they have been recreated many times by Doom. That alone says they arent the real deals. Something else is happening here.

[Sardorim]

Im not convinced thats what that means in this case. Ultinate End says they have been recreated many times by Doom. That alone says they arent the real deals. Something else is happening here.

Yes, the zones but not the characters.

Spider-Gwen is proof they're not recreations but simply have altered memories.

[KOSLOX]

Yes, the zones but not the characters.

Spider-Gwen is proof they're not recreations but simply have altered memories.

It's proof that Doom has altered some characters memories, not that they weren't recreations to begin with.

[vitruvian]

Though it was also said that they saved what they could and created what they couldn't. That alone might account for certain characters (like Spider-Man and Cyclops) being in this mini: they created them because they thought they should be there and were unable to save them.

Exactly, saved what they could, created what they couldn't. Now, that alone would allow for this Manhattan to be a creation/recreation rather than an area that was really saved... except they persist in identifying the domain on the Battleworld map as 616/1610 Manhattan, and in this issue itself identify one of the Baxter Buildings as the one from Earth-1610. Those legends on the maps would be meaningless if these locations and characters were new creations rather than saved from the actual 616 and 1610.

[KOSLOX]

Exactly, saved what they could, created what they couldn't. Now, that alone would allow for this Manhattan to be a creation/recreation rather than an area that was really saved... except they persist in identifying the domain on the Battleworld map as 616/1610 Manhattan, and in this issue itself identify one of the Baxter Buildings as the one from Earth-1610. Those legends on the maps would be meaningless if these locations and characters were new creations rather than saved from the actual 616 and 1610.

They dropped the 616 markers.

[vitruvian]

They dropped the 616 markers.

Sure, but the domain and characters haven't changed in the interim, they've just gotten a visit from the Thors. They've published it as such, now as far as I'm concerned they're stuck with it being the case.

With regard to the thing where one Tony says to the other that Doom has redone the domain in the past.... supposing that's true, exactly how would this Tony know that? Wouldn't he have been either replaced or had his memory altered to fit each time? Or perhaps the hologram that he had up showing two Earths, not two Battleworlds, with continents like those of Earth, indicates that Tony is able to remember things prior to Battleworld and might be at least somewhat immune to such meddling?

[KOSLOX]

Sure, but the domain and characters haven't changed in the interim, they've just gotten a visit from the Thors. They've published it as such, now as far as I'm concerned they're stuck with it being the case.

With regard to the thing where one Tony says to the other that Doom has redone the domain in the past.... supposing that's true, exactly how would this Tony know that? Wouldn't he have been either replaced or had his memory altered to fit each time? Or perhaps the hologram that he had up showing two Earths, not two Battleworlds, with continents like those of Earth, indicates that Tony is able to remember things prior to Battleworld and might be at least somewhat immune to such meddling?

Honestly, unless something is explicitly confirmed in the main series I'm not taking anything about the side titles at face value.

[Scott Taylor]

What's even weirder about that scene is Peter mentions theirs being dead and they say they had closure. Except that's ignoring that their Peter isn't dead anymore and they know it.

All the characters here are copies of characters from 616 and 1610, maybe? It actually makes no sense at all, you are right.

[Brother Cool]

What the hell did I just read?

[Drakeon]

Its not definitively proven either way.

Im waiting for a direct answer from Secret Wars itself.

As for Miles, I thibk the real Miles will show up from the raft just like the real Starlord shows up in his own mini and Thor shows up in Thors. I bet the reason the books are being delayed is that in SW #4 they get seperated accross Battleworld.