Ultimate End #2 SPOILERS

[jackolover]

Secret Wars #1 doesn't matter, as we know this is set after that. So I think you mean Ultimate End #1. That sequence is also interesting because it includes an Ultimate Hawkeye.

I think I meant Ultimate End #1 as well.

Why is the Ultimate Hawkeye interesting? Was he dead once?

[jackolover]

Though it was also said that they saved what they could and created what they couldn't. That alone might account for certain characters (like Spider-Man and Cyclops) being in this mini: they created them because they thought they should be there and were unable to save them.

Another point I've been wanting to make in another thread regarding recreations is that the frontage pages of just about every tie-in book states the heroes of the 616 and 1610 couldn't save their universes. Everything died, (unless we are supposed to think Doom saved them). So nobody in Manhattan region is real? So if nobody in Manhattan survived the last Incursion, nobody on Battleworld is real either, because Ultimate End is the limiting factor, seeing as this is where we have evidence of the two Universes we are familiar with?

[jackolover]

Exactly, saved what they could, created what they couldn't. Now, that alone would allow for this Manhattan to be a creation/recreation rather than an area that was really saved... except they persist in identifying the domain on the Battleworld map as 616/1610 Manhattan, and in this issue itself identify one of the Baxter Buildings as the one from Earth-1610. Those legends on the maps would be meaningless if these locations and characters were new creations rather than saved from the actual 616 and 1610.

We know Triskelion was destroyed in Secret Wars #1, so that had to be reconstructed.

[jackolover]

Sure, but the domain and characters haven't changed in the interim, they've just gotten a visit from the Thors. They've published it as such, now as far as I'm concerned they're stuck with it being the case.

With regard to the thing where one Tony says to the other that Doom has redone the domain in the past.... supposing that's true, exactly how would this Tony know that? Wouldn't he have been either replaced or had his memory altered to fit each time? Or perhaps the hologram that he had up showing two Earths, not two Battleworlds, with continents like those of Earth, indicates that Tony is able to remember things prior to Battleworld and might be at least somewhat immune to such meddling?

Yeah. Good pickup Vitruvian. That is two Earths in the hologram.

I've been struggling with the comment about having redone the domain in the past. I know Doom could leave memory in tact if he wanted too after a "redone", seeing as Doom likes to sabotage himself a lot. But the memory of the previous multiverse is the interesting part, because these characters aren't from the Raft with the Illuminati. And Tony Stark wasn't supposed to have survived Incursion anyway. Does anybody know if the pink domes covering Incursions zones are attributed to anybody yet? The inference is, these are the domains that Doom is taking to Battleworld.

[Kurolegacy]

What the hell did I just read?

Come issue 5 I bet that'll be all of our reactions for the whole story. Kinda like how Cataclysm started with the threat of Galactus destroying the UU Earth and ended with Kitty Pryde punching out Galactus.

[Plawsky]

Despite how it probably comes across in other posts, my biggest issue is not that this books isn't "THE Ultimate Universe" or "MY characters." I honestly couldn't care less that there's a story about characters that are similar to the Ultimate Universe (though it is annoying that the series is shaping up to be nothing like what was advertised).

The problem here is that the book's just not very good. The premise is somewhat interesting - 2 sections of Battleworld accidentally merge with one another - but the execution is so strange. It's being written with SOME intention of being an Ultimate story, but the characters are clearly new, so there's no real emotion in the scenes.

Thors, however, seems to be the exact opposite. The premise is so cool that it doesn't matter whether or not it's "THE Ultimate Thor." It's just an Elseworlds story where a bunch of Thors are policemen. That's awesome! There's no pretending like this is really Ultimate Thor. There's no confusing concept to dance around; it just gets right to it. Thors, policemen - what else do you need to know?

Hey, Can any of the mods include a poll. I miss those.

Done. I've been adding those polls for 5 years... not sure why I forgot this one.

[Loose Threads]

I went with a "meh". While the art is gorgeous, the story is just not particularly inviting. Had this been the proper Ultimate versions, I would find it interesting Aunt May won't come out and say her Peter's alive, but maybe she does'nt know if he and MJ made it back to New York before the incursion hit.

[Biclopcicle]

Come issue 5 I bet that'll be all of our reactions for the whole story. Kinda like how Cataclysm started with the threat of Galactus destroying the UU Earth and ended with Kitty Pryde punching out Galactus.

Don't remind me of that dumbness

[Alastor]

Come issue 5 I bet that'll be all of our reactions for the whole story. Kinda like how Cataclysm started with the threat of Galactus destroying the UU Earth and ended with Kitty Pryde punching out Galactus.

Not really. Cataclysm ended with Galactus trapped in the Negative Zone via the combined efforts of Kitty, Tony, Reed and Thor. Kitty's job was to destroy the machine and distract Galactus long enough for Reed and Tony to prepare the portal. Galactus clearly had the upper hand and would have killed Kitty if it weren't for the portal and Thor.

[Kurolegacy]

Not really. Cataclysm ended with Galactus trapped in the Negative Zone via the combined efforts of Kitty, Tony, Reed and Thor. Kitty's job was to destroy the machine and distract Galactus long enough for Reed and Tony to prepare the portal. Galactus clearly had the upper hand and would have killed Kitty if it weren't for the portal and Thor.

True but it was still a pretty stupid and cartoonish sequence for the UU that is only rivaled by the end of the Maker story arc where Reed injected Hulk with Giant Man serum.

[Project37]

What a disappointment - I lost my patience seeing the Spider-Men scene rehashed. The whole thing feels empty, chaotic, and worst of all - ultimate inconsequential.

UU deserved a better farewell.

[TheFerg714]

Although the issue was mildly enjoyable, I'm really kind of upset that the last Ultimate comic ever is essentially just tying the two universes together. For example, I have no desire to see the Hulk from 616 fight the Hulk from 1610. I don't give a crap about 616 Hawkeye "dying." Honestly, I couldn't even care less about the two Stark's conversating. I just wish this comic was about something wholly different. :/ Oh well, I guess I've been living with Ultimate S**t for about a year now so it's hard to start caring now. I've been rereading the UU (UF4, and everything post-Ultimatum), and I prepared myself for the suckage of post-Cataclysm, but it just didn't help. I mean, hell, I was even a little impressed by Cataclysm after lowering my standards. But Jesus Christ, everything since then has been pretty awful. Miles Morales: The USM is easily the worst USM has ever been (although, not awful), UFF was rushed and dumb, and All-New Ultimates was garbage. I don't know why I expected some sort of return to form in Ultimate End, but it's truly god damned depressing.

EDIT: Also.. how the hell is Cyclops simultaneously Phoenix-ified in the main Secret Wars book, but still Phoenix-less in Ultimate End!? This seems like a super obvious problem that could be easily rectified.
EDIT: Why the hell is Ultimate Thor not part of the Thors strike team (for lack of a better word)!?

What a disappointment - I lost my patience seeing the Spider-Men scene rehashed. The whole thing feels empty, chaotic, and worst of all - ultimate inconsequential.

UU deserved a better farewell.

As sad as this post makes me, you really hit the nail on the head. Not only had I already seen that scene before, it's like May and Gwen just up and forgot about Peter's pointless return.

[jackolover]

I think the 616 Tony is way different to Superior Iron Man or post Fear Itself drunkard Iron Man. This Tony must have been before Fear Itself at least, where he had been sober for years.

[jackolover]

I know about all that, I'm just trying to guess where this Hulk came from. I suppose those are all possible places the Hulk could have come from. Either way I'm just interested in whatever is going on.

Hulks have been illegally crossing borders, so this green Hulk could be one of those.

[jackolover]

My main gripe with todays issue is that Stark was clearly looking at two big projections of earth. Not Battleworld. They clearly know they are on Battleworld and know about Doom. So whats up? Either Bagley and Bendis are just stupid or something is going on...

What if the Stark computers were preserved by Doom from the Incursion, but the Starks themselves aren't 616 or 1610 related? Stark could be examining the computer data and seeing this strange image but not recognize it?