Selina Kyle: Catwoman Appreciation 2018

[Frontier]

That aside, its kinda funny that this proposal is the big thing everyone is talking about, and I don't care about it in the slightest. This isn't exactly a "romance for the ages" in my eyes, and I'm pretty positive that even if Selina says yes, and the marriage actually happens, it won't stick for more than a couple years, at most.

Well, you never did strike me as a BatCat shipper, if only given your general apathy towards both Batman and Catwoman .

But I think, even if it's not a relationship you find a appealing, that it can't be denied that Batman and Catwoman are one of DC's most iconic and popular romances, so I'm not surprised that this is being treated as a very big deal.

Though I think even those of us who are very into BatCat, myself included, can sense that this engagement or marriage will probably come apart at some point by the nature of who Bruce and Selina are and by the workings of Batman and Catwoman...but the story and the meaning to their relationship will still be valid and engaging.

What might get me interested is if she appeared in 'Tec as a result of this, since to my knowledge Selina doesn't have much/any experience with the team members, so that would be a whole new canister of interactions and dynamics which could be opened up.

I've been wanting a Catwoman appearance in 'Tec for a while now. If this makes it happen, I'm all for it .

It's subjective. From my perspective, Bruce and Selina's relationship has never been that engaging, and the relationship being mainstream doesn't change that at all. Also, mainstream audiences don't know Bruce has a "biological" son. Don't be like "The Button" and imply that Damian is anymore Bruce's kid than the others.

I think, while none of the other Robins are as mainstream as Dick, Damian is pretty high up there thanks to his media appearances and promotions, so I think his status is somewhat well-recognized.

But I never thought "The Button" implied Damian was more of Bruce's kid then the other sidekicks, because of the context.

[Assam]

Well, you never did strike me as a BatCat shipper, if only given your general apathy towards both Batman and Catwoman .

Actually, even if I don't care for characters, I can still love a relationship. (Both romantic and non-romantic) Ex. (In the non-romantic variety): There are probably no comic characters who my feelings fluctuate on more than Dick and Damian, but even when I'm not caring for either, I still LOVE their relationship.

Also, my apathy toward Selina has nothing to do with her character (I have basically zero feelings about her one way or another), I just haven't read much with her.

And since this is her appreciation thread, anyone got recommendations? (Note: I've tried both 90's Catwoman and Brubaker's run. Didn't care for the issues I read.)

[Caivu]

What might get me interested is if she appeared in 'Tec as a result of this, since to my knowledge Selina doesn't have much/any experience with the team members, so that would be a whole new canister of interactions and dynamics which could be opened up.

This got me to thinking about it, and the only members I know for sure Selina's met are Bruce and Steph, and maybe Tim. And she kidnapped Steph, so... yeah. There's the potential for a bunch of fireworks there already.

[dietrich]

Well, back in the good continuity, Tim and Cass were both legally adopted. With Tim's parents alive again though, Cass is the only one whose just as much Bruce's kid as the three you mentioned.

That aside, its kinda funny that this proposal is the big thing everyone is talking about, and I don't care about it in the slightest. This isn't exactly a "romance for the ages" in my eyes, and I'm pretty positive that even if Selina says yes, and the marriage actually happens, it won't stick for more than a couple years, at most.

What might get me interested is if she appeared in 'Tec as a result of this, since to my knowledge Selina doesn't have much/any experience with the team members, so that would be a whole new canister of interactions and dynamics which could be opened up.

What do you mean good continuity? Regardless of fan head canons Bruce only has 3 kids.

It's subjective. From my perspective, Bruce and Selina's relationship has never been that engaging, and the relationship being mainstream doesn't change that at all. Also, mainstream audiences don't know Bruce has a "biological" son. Don't be like "The Button" and imply that Damian is anymore Bruce's kid than the others.

Are you joking? if there's two things mainstream audiences know is that Robin is Dick Grayson or Damian Wayne and that Damian Wayne is the Over powered biological son of Batman. Those movies and Injustice 2 practically beats you over the head with it every few seconds it's ridiculous.

[dietrich]

I have never been a Bruce and anyone shipper but I have to say that a part of me really wants Selina to say yes and for King to go all the way with this. I liked them as a married in the BATB so might be interesting.

[Assam]

What do you mean good continuity? Regardless of fan head canons Bruce only has 3 kids.

I'm talking about Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Both Tim and Cass were adopted there.

Are you joking? if there's two things mainstream audiences know is that Robin is Dick Grayson or Damian Wayne and that Damian Wayne is the Over powered biological son of Batman. Those movies and Injustice 2 practically beats you over the head with it every few seconds it's ridiculous.

Bad wording on my part. I was responding to someone who said that mainstream audiences didn't know that Batman had a son, and I was focusing on the biological vs adopted point. Damian definitely is the most well known Robin besides Dick, or at least tied with Jason.

[CryNotWolf]

No they haven't! Prior to that scene in the Catwoman's N52, I don't think even think they had sex. Maybe it was inferred around 2009 but pre-2005, those two did not have sex.

With that being said, I completely agree with you that Bruce wants a more stable life. That I do agree with. And there have been hints of that ever since the mid 70's comics.

Remember, he saw himself starting a family with Silver so this is been something that Bruce has been thinking about for a long time.

Bruce and Selina had sex multiple times in Brubaker's Catwoman run, most notably issue 32. They also had a serious relationship during Wein's Batman run so it's only natural they would have had sex then as well.

[WontonGirl]

It's subjective. From my perspective, Bruce and Selina's relationship has never been that engaging, and the relationship being mainstream doesn't change that at all. Also, mainstream audiences don't know Bruce has a "biological" son. Don't be like "The Button" and imply that Damian is anymore Bruce's kid than the others.

First off, I am NOT implying that Damian is less than any other son. He is Bruce's biological son and of course I acknowledge that. But non-comic book readers, mainstream fans and the "casual" fan do not know that Batman has a son. I didn't even know he had one till two years ago and I thought I was a Batman fan. Although I will admit, I fell off after the events of HUSH and the couple of times I did go back to Batman post HUSH, Damian Wayne was not in those stories.

And if you don't find their relationship not be as "engaging", then of course you wouldn't acknowledge it as a big deal. It is a big deal and is on some mainstream sites but seeing something and acknowledging it are two different things.

To each his own. At the end of the day, hopefully we still both like Batman.

[WontonGirl]

Actually, even if I don't care for characters, I can still love a relationship. (Both romantic and non-romantic) Ex. (In the non-romantic variety): There are probably no comic characters who my feelings fluctuate on more than Dick and Damian, but even when I'm not caring for either, I still LOVE their relationship.

Also, my apathy toward Selina has nothing to do with her character (I have basically zero feelings about her one way or another), I just haven't read much with her.

And since this is her appreciation thread, anyone got recommendations? (Note: I've tried both 90's Catwoman and Brubaker's run. Didn't care for the issues I read.)

If you are seriously interested, I can PM you some good recommendations. But that's ONLY if you also give me some good recommendations for Dick and Damian because I do like Dick Grayson and I am "intrigued" by his relationship with Damian. Seemed like them as Batman/Robin was cool but it's just way confusing for me to figure out where exactly to start.

[WontonGirl]

Bruce and Selina had sex multiple times in Brubaker's Catwoman run, most notably issue 32. They also had a serious relationship during Wein's Batman run so it's only natural they would have had sex then as well.

No, I do not believe they have sex during Wein's run or Doug's run. In fact, the first person that was said he had sex with was Silver St. Cloud in the late 70's.

And I'll give you Issue #32 from Brubaker's run BUT to be fair, that's the Catwoman comic.

In the MAIN titles (Batman/Detective), they did not have sex prior to N52. Bruce/Selina or Bat/Cat.

[WontonGirl]

I'm talking about Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Both Tim and Cass were adopted there.



Bad wording on my part. I was responding to someone who said that mainstream audiences didn't know that Batman had a son, and I was focusing on the biological vs adopted point. Damian definitely is the most well known Robin besides Dick, or at least tied with Jason.

No, that's NOT true. Dick Grayson is the most well known Robin. Most mainstream fans or casual fans DO NOT know that Batman has a son.

Again, I didn't even know of the animated films that existed after 2009 until I saw them listed on Wikipedia. I myself am playing catch-up with these comics. Didn't know WHO the hell Tim Drake was or Steph or Cass or any of these people.

No, in the regular, everyday world, most people don't know who the hell these people are. Especially in my age group because they moved on from comics and animation after a certain age and was only seeing mainstream and see mainstream.

Great example is Wonder Woman. So MANY FANS that have never picked up a comic but are watching this movie. All ages. BUT the one thing that they looked for was Steve Trevor. Some don't know Ares, some do BUT if Steve had not been in that movie, there would had been questions, LOL

[WontonGirl]

What do you mean good continuity? Regardless of fan head canons Bruce only has 3 kids.



Are you joking? if there's two things mainstream audiences know is that Robin is Dick Grayson or Damian Wayne and that Damian Wayne is the Over powered biological son of Batman. Those movies and Injustice 2 practically beats you over the head with it every few seconds it's ridiculous.

Wasn't it ridiculous? But again, keep in mind, most mainstream and casual fans probably didn't see those animation movies or are gamers.

Some know Damien, some don't. It's really that simple.

[WontonGirl]

I have never been a Bruce and anyone shipper but I have to say that a part of me really wants Selina to say yes and for King to go all the way with this. I liked them as a married in the BATB so might be interesting.

Yeah and their child was named Damian, LOL!

Morrison took that name just like the framework for Batman and Son is very similar to the drama Bruce went through with Nocturna over Jason Todd.

[Assam]

And if you don't find their relationship not be as "engaging", then of course you wouldn't acknowledge it as a big deal. It is a big deal and is on some mainstream sites but seeing something and acknowledging it are two different things.

Implying that mainstream news sites never make big deals out of nothing? Regardless, I get what you mean.

To each his own. At the end of the day, hopefully we still both like Batman.

Actually yes. Tynion's 'Tec has reminded me of all the qualities I like about the character.

If you are seriously interested, I can PM you some good recommendations. But that's ONLY if you also give me some good recommendations for Dick and Damian because I do like Dick Grayson and I am "intrigued" by his relationship with Damian. Seemed like them as Batman/Robin was cool but it's just way confusing for me to figure out where exactly to start.

I am serious, as I'd like to be able to finally form an opinion on her. As for Dick and Damian, to fully appreciate the relationship, read Morrison's entire run, starting with Batman and Son. If that's too much, I've talked to people who had no problem starting with Morrison's Batman and Robin, Pre-Nu52. Wherever you decide to start, you can find complete reading orders with a quick google search. If you just want a taste before diving into Damian's multiple year-long character arc, the most recent arc of Nightwing, Nightwing Must Die, is a great display of their dynamic.

No, that's NOT true. Dick Grayson is the most well known Robin. Most mainstream fans or casual fans DO NOT know that Batman has a son.

I said "besides" Dick. Of course Dick is by far the most well known.

[WontonGirl]

Implying that mainstream news sites never make big deals out of nothing? Regardless, I get what you mean.



Actually yes. Tynion's 'Tec has reminded me of all the qualities I like about the character.



I am serious, as I'd like to be able to finally form an opinion on her. As for Dick and Damian, to fully appreciate the relationship, read Morrison's entire run, starting with Batman and Son. If that's too much, I've talked to people who had no problem starting with Morrison's Batman and Robin, Pre-Nu52. Wherever you decide to start, you can find complete reading orders with a quick google search. If you just want a taste before diving into Damian's multiple year-long character arc, the most recent arc of Nightwing, Nightwing Must Die, is a great display of their dynamic.



I said "besides" Dick. Of course Dick is by far the most well known.

Um, I think I did try Morrison's Batman & Son. I think I got confused with some ordering but okay I will try it again because I thought something jumped over to Batman & Robin. Nevertheless, I might just have to look at the Nightwing selections you mentioned. If it's mostly Dick and him, then I will read it.

And when I get back home later, I will send my recommendations to you for Cat. Any particular relationship you are looking for with her? There is some good moments with Barbs and I know lots of people love her and her kinda "big sister" relationship with Holly but I really couldn't get into it.