Selina Kyle: Catwoman Appreciation 2018

[Caivu]

By Stephen Byrne:

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[Fergus]

I'm reading, but I'm not seeing any coherent argument here. Maybe you would like to express your point in a better manner?

The New 52 Catwoman title was the single most heavily lambasted comic of that era, to the point that it became a running joke while Nocenti was writing the title. The book never had the pleasure of receiving a marquee author, and after Winick and March left the book DC decided to cut their losses and pretend the book didn't exist. Even when DCYou era came around and Valentine turned it into one of the best cape runs of the past decade, DC was too buy plastering Batgirl and Harley Quinn on all their adverts, so no wonder the book didn't sell. It has literally nothing to do with the character quality.

In fact, your argument is quite ironic, considering her history and cross-media accolades do nothing but compound her continued worth as a character and speak to creators' desire to use her to craft great stories.

We are talking sales figures not creators desires I am talking about her continued worth in sales figures. Creators might want to use a character doesn't mean that the fans are flocking to read the creation.
What were her numbers before the new52? enlighten me then.

[Fergus]

Fergus, I swear you confused me all the time, LOL! I don't know if you are a fan or not, I'm like,

I mean, Catwoman, just like you said is a well advertised figure. BUT as I know being a Mainstream fan myself, Catwoman, Batman, Supers, Spidey; they are in so much Mainstream stuff, some fans feel like they don't need to read the comics to get their fix. You know what I mean?

It's like Wonder Woman. There are SO MANY women who came out to see that movie and grew up on WW show, the coloring books, special books, maybe the earlier comics, etc. But with ALL THAT HISTORY and being so iconic, Wonder Woman can't crack 45K?

Superman used to sell over 500,000 copies. Books used to get CANCELLED for 30K. But know that's considered good?

Please. Sometimes, things happen. They cancelled Black Canaray's book too. And most people outside of DC Comic book readers, don't even know Batman has a son. I just found out in 2015 and I've always considered myself a big Batman fan.

I am not a fan but I'm also not a Hater. Mostly I'm indifferent but I like to play devil Advocate. I know her from the mainstream and always thought she was one of DCs bigger properties. I was surprised when I found out on comic vine how her new52 comic went.

You see I feel that Cats is a bit like Wonder Wonder. if she had a good movie would get the audience but day to day most don't really care and would not go out of their way to buy her.

[Fergus]

Pretty sure he is being sarcastic and not a fan, if you read the Damian thread. He commented about the lack of Catwoamn support in the Talia /Catwoman thread as proof that Talia is more interesting and I considered commenting "I've avoided opening the thread because I assume people who aren't liking the current Batman storyline will use it to make sarcastic pot-shots at Catwoman or her fans as they've been doing in other threads, even her appreciation thread." Decided not to comment, and then came here and see exactly what I was going to mention.

A book that treats a character badly, that turns off her fans can start selling poorly. People wait for another writer to come around. That's not a surprise and nothing new and not a knock on the character herself. A lot of what I see in Catwoman has been missing for a while and hoping the next time she gets a standalone it will be the version of her that I recognize more.

Dude you need to edit or retract this since I did no such thing. Go back look at my comment look at the WHOLE comment thread. This is a lie not even a misunderstanding

[Osiris-Rex]

We are talking sales figures not creators desires I am talking about her continued worth in sales figures. Creators might want to use a character doesn't mean that the fans are flocking to read the creation.
What were her numbers before the new52? enlighten me then.

Couldn't find the numbers for the first issue of the first Catwoman series, but #19 in March 1996 sold 68,500 issues.

The final issue of the first Catwoman series, #94 in July 2001, sold 25,774 issues

The first issue of Catwoman's second series, in January 2002, sold 49,413 issues

The final issue of the second Catwoman series, #82 in October 2008, sold 17,652 issues

The first issue Catwoman New 52 in November 2011 sold 53,670 issues

The final issues of Catwoman New 52, #52 in July 2016, sold 16,146 issues.

So apparently the interest was there but DC failed in the execution three times in a row.

[CryNotWolf]

We are talking sales figures not creators desires I am talking about her continued worth in sales figures. Creators might want to use a character doesn't mean that the fans are flocking to read the creation.
What were her numbers before the new52? enlighten me then.

And if you would bother to take the time to think about this...like, at all...you would realize that Catwoman's comics have historically pulled very good numbers for a character that:

1. isn't a superhero
2. is not kid-friendly (and by that I mean "mature" by multiple definitions)
3. occupies an atypical place in their mythos
4. gets little to no advert push from DC
5. very sparingly gets talented/popular creators
6. is poorly edited

Perhaps you should put in even the tiniest bit of effort to contextualize these things instead of coming onto this board acting all incredulous. You're not playing "devil's advocate", you're just broadcasting your ignorance in an effort to make others do the work to inform you.

The love for the character is clear as day, as is her popularity and permeation through not only the world of comics but popular culture as a whole. If DC wanted to make a Catwoman book work, it would be astoundingly simple, especially in today's climate.

[klynn]

Loved Batman #44 today. Joelle Jones' art was fantastic as usual. Really, I'd read a whole series of just day-in-the-life stories about Selina by King & Jones.

[Osiris-Rex]

And if you would bother to take the time to think about this...like, at all...you would realize that Catwoman's comics have historically pulled very good numbers for a character that:

1. isn't a superhero
2. is not kid-friendly (and by that I mean "mature" by multiple definitions)
3. occupies an atypical place in their mythos
4. gets little to no advert push from DC
5. very sparingly gets talented/popular creators
6. is poorly edited

Perhaps you should put in even the tiniest bit of effort to contextualize these things instead of coming onto this board acting all incredulous. You're not playing "devil's advocate", you're just broadcasting your ignorance in an effort to make others do the work to inform you.

The love for the character is clear as day, as is her popularity and permeation through not only the world of comics but popular culture as a whole. If DC wanted to make a Catwoman book work, it would be astoundingly simple, especially in today's climate.

Just look how well the first few issues of each Catwoman series sold as compared to the last few issue. The love of a character can only last so long if all they are getting in the comic books is junk.

[Diammandis]

Batman 46 cover by Tony Daniel

[WontonGirl]

I am not a fan but I'm also not a Hater. Mostly I'm indifferent but I like to play devil Advocate. I know her from the mainstream and always thought she was one of DCs bigger properties. I was surprised when I found out on comic vine how her new52 comic went.

You see I feel that Cats is a bit like Wonder Wonder. if she had a good movie would get the audience but day to day most don't really care and would not go out of their way to buy her.

Catwoman IS one of DC big iconic properties. If she wasn't, then she wouldn't be in this run and the Batman character wouldn't be marrying her. He would be marrying, Julie Madison or Vicki Vale, LOL!

I mean, if we want to be real, outside of the CURRENT comics and maybe some Gamers who played Injustice, barely nobody knows that Damian exist. Does that mean he is less important? I don't think Damian comic fans would say no. And outside of CURRENT DC Comic readers, trust, NOBODY knows who Synder is or what N52 was or Metal or any of that stuff. But lots of people can tell you about how "Batman and Catwoman has a kid in the comics", an alternate Earth story from the 80's that people STILL talk about.

The reason why Catwoman is SO popular in the mainstream is because she was and is popular in the comics first. I mean people still talk about When In Rome and The Long Halloween, HUSH, shoot even Ed Brubaker's run is critical acclaim. You got folks getting married in Wedding chapels as "Batman and Catwoman", going to adult Halloween parties as "Batman and Catwoman". This character has been in EVERY medium and even though other characters have as well, they don't have the popularity that she has.

Character popularity isn't always based or driven on Sales. IF that was the case, then Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men comics would be selling over 1 million copies per issue per month! All these Batman and Spidey fans running around here

[WontonGirl]

I don't know why I can't edit this post! LOL!

[WontonGirl]

All the covers look great!

[WonderScott]

Such a beautiful cover - I'm so here for the Bat and Cat romance and relationship.

[klynn]

Catwoman IS one of DC big iconic properties. If she wasn't, then she wouldn't be in this run and the Batman character wouldn't be marrying her. He would be marrying, Julie Madison or Vicki Vale, LOL!

I mean, if we want to be real, outside of the CURRENT comics and maybe some Gamers who played Injustice, barely nobody knows that Damian exist. Does that mean he is less important? I don't think Damian comic fans would say no. And outside of CURRENT DC Comic readers, trust, NOBODY knows who Synder is or what N52 was or Metal or any of that stuff. But lots of people can tell you about how "Batman and Catwoman has a kid in the comics", an alternate Earth story from the 80's that people STILL talk about.

The reason why Catwoman is SO popular in the mainstream is because she was and is popular in the comics first. I mean people still talk about When In Rome and The Long Halloween, HUSH, shoot even Ed Brubaker's run is critical acclaim. You got folks getting married in Wedding chapels as "Batman and Catwoman", going to adult Halloween parties as "Batman and Catwoman". This character has been in EVERY medium and even though other characters have as well, they don't have the popularity that she has.

Character popularity isn't always based or driven on Sales. IF that was the case, then Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men comics would be selling over 1 million copies per issue per month! All these Batman and Spidey fans running around here

Just wondering if Selina is a significant enough character in The Long Halloween to read it. I've read the other stories you mentioned here.

[Fergus]

Couldn't find the numbers for the first issue of the first Catwoman series, but #19 in March 1996 sold 68,500 issues.

The final issue of the first Catwoman series, #94 in July 2001, sold 25,774 issues

The first issue of Catwoman's second series, in January 2002, sold 49,413 issues

The final issue of the second Catwoman series, #82 in October 2008, sold 17,652 issues

The first issue Catwoman New 52 in November 2011 sold 53,670 issues

The final issues of Catwoman New 52, #52 in July 2016, sold 16,146 issues.

So apparently the interest was there but DC failed in the execution three times in a row.

So 2001 was the last time she had good numbers since 1st issue's don't reflect the actual stabilised sales figures