Selina Kyle: Catwoman Appreciation 2018

[Huntsman1117]

What do you mean?

Almost every other major female comic character has feminine beauty and sex appeal. Think about Storm, Mystique, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, and Supergirl. I regret I also have to mention Black Widow and Black Cat because they both wear black latex catsuits that are usually partially unzipped.

Catwoman is the only major female character whose costume has heavy boots and bug-eye goggles that cover her eyes and most of her beautiful face. Darwyn Cooke said he wanted to make Catwoman less sexy and more practical looking. (I should mention he just did the same thing with Batgirl, which all of my friends on Facebook blasted) That doesn't make sense to me because cats are feminine, soft, lightweight, and sensual. Catwoman was created to be a femine antithesis to Batman, according to Bob Kane. A utilitarian outfit like hers just doesn't make sense for a femine, seductive, cat-burglar. Work boots, aviator helmets, and goggles simply are not attractive.

Also, I can guarantee you that more men, and even women, find women with longer hair more attractive and more sexy. I'm not that opposed to Selina having short hair, but I think she looks better with medium- (like Michelle Pfeiffer and Camren Bicondova) to longer hair, like she used to have before Darwyn Cooke's style.

[Huntsman1117]

As for the prostitution origin, Frank Miller is obviously a man who loves dark vices (such as prostitution). This is apparently why he created "Sin City". I'm certain that Miller made Catwoman a prostitute for this reason. Then he went on to show the future Catwoman as an overweight prostitute dressed as Wonder Woman, tied up, and beaten black & blue in his beloved Dark Knight Returns novel. Frank Miller has no respect for Catwoman and just wants to degrade her for the sake of including dirty vices in his comic, which unfortunately became mostly cannonical. Therefore as a Catwoman fan I can't stand Frank Miller.

[The_Greatest_Username]

I don't really like her as a wealthy heiress turned to crime because it makes her less sympathetic. In my opinion, Selina should not come from a life of privilege.
Making Selina into a sex worker doesn't automatically make her sleazy. I think it makes her a character with more depth because it makes her seem undesirable by the rest of society. It also gives her a better reason to not trust the police.

[Unfinishedsentenc]

As for the prostitution origin, Frank Miller is obviously a man who loves dark vices (such as prostitution). This is apparently why he created "Sin City". I'm certain that Miller made Catwoman a prostitute for this reason. Then he went on to show the future Catwoman as an overweight prostitute dressed as Wonder Woman, tied up, and beaten black & blue in his beloved Dark Knight Returns novel. Frank Miller has no respect for Catwoman and just wants to degrade her for the sake of including dirty vices in his comic, which unfortunately became mostly cannonical. Therefore as a Catwoman fan I can't stand Frank Miller.

I feel the same way. Heck, he had more respect for Two-Face or Barry Allen (who isn't even apart of the Batman mythos) than one of the most pivotal elements in the Bruce's life.

[vasir12]

Being a sex worker isn't automatically degrading and damaging to one's character, people.

[Aahz]

As for the prostitution origin, Frank Miller is obviously a man who loves dark vices (such as prostitution). This is apparently why he created "Sin City". I'm certain that Miller made Catwoman a prostitute for this reason. Then he went on to show the future Catwoman as an overweight prostitute dressed as Wonder Woman, tied up, and beaten black & blue in his beloved Dark Knight Returns novel. Frank Miller has no respect for Catwoman and just wants to degrade her for the sake of including dirty vices in his comic, which unfortunately became mostly cannonical. Therefore as a Catwoman fan I can't stand Frank Miller.

Wasn't the prostitution thing changed by a retcon?

Btw. was there ever a real explanation for her new 52 origin as Mafia princess?

[TsukiSentinel]

As for the prostitution origin, Frank Miller is obviously a man who loves dark vices (such as prostitution). This is apparently why he created "Sin City". I'm certain that Miller made Catwoman a prostitute for this reason. Then he went on to show the future Catwoman as an overweight prostitute dressed as Wonder Woman, tied up, and beaten black & blue in his beloved Dark Knight Returns novel. Frank Miller has no respect for Catwoman and just wants to degrade her for the sake of including dirty vices in his comic, which unfortunately became mostly cannonical. Therefore as a Catwoman fan I can't stand Frank Miller.

I wasn't talking about Frank Miller, but for the record, I find his treatment of Catwoman atrocious. It's not the fact that he made her a sex worker that bothered me. It's the fact that he degraded her.

[Huntsman1117]

Being a sex worker isn't automatically degrading and damaging to one's character, people.

No, not always. But in Catwoman's case, it was very much so. Frank Miller degraded Selina Kyle. She was living and operating in a very dirty section of the city in a filthy apartment (where she also did her business-gross). The probability that she would have several STD's in the 1980's (when it was written) would be extremely high. She did not appear clean, classy, nor professional. Frank Miller made Selina Kyle a bottom feeder as both a young adult AND as a middle-aged woman past her prime. The prostitution origin created by Frank Miller was an insult to Catwoman and anyone who liked her character.

And no, this origin was cannonical up to the point of the New 52. Ed Brubaker used this origin as the basis of his entire run in the early-to-mid-2000's.

[godisawesome]

The biggest issue I have with Selina having a past in the oldest profession (aka prostitution, hooking, and all sorts of synonyms that all carry radically different twists on the same general occupation) is that some writers don't seem to be able to use it in a good way. Not just tasteful, but I mean in a quality manner; Miller himself being one of the examples, since his Selina ultimately reads more like a (to be more crass and to use a viewpoint from someone less inclined towards respecting their fellow humanity) crazy hooker with a fetish costume. When someone uses it well, like Darwyn Cooke or the writers who've lumped it in with the rest of her life story to show how desperate her beginning was, it's fine.

Of course, Catwoman herself is pretty hard up for any definitive origin; you've got the resurrection by Cat story that someone tried to use in the comics, the flight attendant with amnesia, the wealthy heiress gone bad, the mafia don's daughter, and the street rat and petty thief. Only the latter seems the easiest to just plug in and work with; it's the one used by Gotham and Dark Knight Rises.

Speaking of Catwoman's costume...here's that version I put in the Catwoman gear thread a few weeks ago. I'm sorry to bother you guys if you've seen it before, but here it is with a few explanations:

-Her claws can flip back on her knuckles to both free her fingers up for light fingered theft and other dexterity work, as well as forming handy brass knuckles.
-I was trying to combine a suit that actually does embrace the idea that she chose to take a practical suit and then heavily modify it to be fashioned as a costume.
- Yeah, that's a bedazzled set of batcuffs on one wrist; I thought it made sense that she might intentionally display a trophy of escaping Batman, and she can probably find practical usage for the,.
- Her other wrist has a Bat-claw style gadget; I liked the thing she had in the nineties, and I think you could excuse it as being yet another gadget she's stolen from Batman, or perhaps payment and gear he gave her for some industrial espionage.
- I'm a fan of long-haired Selina as well, but it occurred to me that a con-woman and professional burglar might actually find it useful to be able to switch between multiple hairstyles; so this one is a short haired Catwoman who uses wigs in both civilian and costume work.
image.jpgimage.jpg

[DanArt]

Catwoman during the 1990's, and the 1960's was puuuurrffect. That is the Catwoman I want to remember. She should have stayed a villain and batmans one true want. Commissioner Gorden's daughter is a stalemate. Only reason Bat-girl exist is the counter Cat-woman becuase Batman can't. At least in the Terry universe Bruce prefers Youth over Age. Where is the Cat woman saga there??? I guess she retired or ended up inside an insane asylum finally. Probably spend the remainder of her life hunting down poachers ( which would make more sense to end her life ).

Catwoman should slay the moron who shot and killed Cecil the Lion. Lets see how he likes running naked in plains of Africa. Dentists the true enemy of both man and beast alike. Imagine Selina against an army of mad dentist or one in particular. It would be the greatest Cat woman comeback ever.

[TsukiSentinel]

Almost every other major female comic character has feminine beauty and sex appeal. Think about Storm, Mystique, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, and Supergirl. I regret I also have to mention Black Widow and Black Cat because they both wear black latex catsuits that are usually partially unzipped.

Catwoman is the only major female character whose costume has heavy boots and bug-eye goggles that cover her eyes and most of her beautiful face. Darwyn Cooke said he wanted to make Catwoman less sexy and more practical looking. (I should mention he just did the same thing with Batgirl, which all of my friends on Facebook blasted) That doesn't make sense to me because cats are feminine, soft, lightweight, and sensual. Catwoman was created to be a femine antithesis to Batman, according to Bob Kane. A utilitarian outfit like hers just doesn't make sense for a femine, seductive, cat-burglar. Work boots, aviator helmets, and goggles simply are not attractive.

Also, I can guarantee you that more men, and even women, find women with longer hair more attractive and more sexy. I'm not that opposed to Selina having short hair, but I think she looks better with medium- (like Michelle Pfeiffer and Camren Bicondova) to longer hair, like she used to have before Darwyn Cooke's style.

A lot of your complaints seem to me to be more about your specific idea of what's sexy. If you look at any of Adam Hughes' Catwoman covers, you'll see that her sexiness has never actually been toned down. If anything, she's even sexier in his covers because of her more realistic appearance.

[Osiris-Rex]

As for the prostitution origin, Frank Miller is obviously a man who loves dark vices (such as prostitution). This is apparently why he created "Sin City". I'm certain that Miller made Catwoman a prostitute for this reason. Then he went on to show the future Catwoman as an overweight prostitute dressed as Wonder Woman, tied up, and beaten black & blue in his beloved Dark Knight Returns novel. Frank Miller has no respect for Catwoman and just wants to degrade her for the sake of including dirty vices in his comic, which unfortunately became mostly cannonical. Therefore as a Catwoman fan I can't stand Frank Miller.

Absolutely hated what Frank Miller did to Catwoman and it led me to hating Frank Miller in general.

[TsukiSentinel]

Absolutely hated what Frank Miller did to Catwoman and it led me to hating Frank Miller in general.

What did you hate specifically?

[Huntsman1117]

Good point about Adam Hughes's covers. 98% of them are outstanding! Adam said he fell in love with Catwoman, and his cover art was so great that it made the cover of a huge comic book price guide. BUT tragically his awesome art misrepresented the art inside. She was glamorous and sexy on the cover, but basic, bulky, and...butchy (sorry) inside.

I guess they couldn't afford to have Hughes illustrate every page of each issue.


When one sees an attractive woman on the cover on a comic and sees a much less attractive woman on the inside of the book (doing strange things like having a baby with her former friend/lover's son), they are apparently less inclined to invest in the book.

[Huntsman1117]

What did you hate specifically?

I can say that I specifically despised how Miller made Selina a cheap, dirty-looking hooker who seemed to make very little money and hated her life. He then portrayed her as a woman who gained little more other than 200 lbs, a bad Wonder Woman costume, and cheap, runny eyeliner, and a sadistic client who enjoyed beating her black & blue and leaving her bound & broken on her own floor.

I dont think the fact she gained weight later in life is horrible. But the horrible image and situation that Miller created for the future Selina Kyle in The Dark Knight Returns is abhorrent and disrespectful to her as a beloved, iconic character.