Selina Kyle: Catwoman Appreciation 2018

[Huntsman1117]

Cool I'll check that out.

[klynn]

So apparently Selina will only be showing up in Snyder's All-Star Batman? Did he write her at all in his Batman run? And it sounds like maybe he'll only write the villains in individual arcs so we might not even get much of her here. I'm a little bummed by this.

CefUzPqXIAEhLCL.jpg

[TsukiSentinel]

So apparently Selina will only be showing up in Snyder's All-Star Batman? Did he write her at all in his Batman run? And it sounds like maybe he'll only write the villains in individual arcs so we might not even get much of her here. I'm a little bummed by this.

CefUzPqXIAEhLCL.jpg

I don't think DC likes Catwoman. Scott Snyder was the one who put her on the crime-boss path.

[heyevaxx]

I think I've got to accept that my fave Selina Kyle's 23 year monthly run is over. She seems to be in between completely benched and being a regular guest. Maybe some ASB, Batman, or tec.

Her numbers after Valentine left have just fallen off a cliff. DC might be reluctant to give her another solo unless she stars in a movie.

[godisawesome]

That image looks like it's hinting at a slight redesign of Catwoman's costume. I think you can see thigh high boots and shoulder high gloves.

To me, the biggest issue with Catwoman going forward into Rebirth was the mishandling of both the transition to Valentine's story and then the snap back to the old formula that was so vicious it killed off any feeling of continuity and consistency left in the title. New 52 Catwoman before Valentine was mostly junk; Valentine won some people back to the comic just by not sucking and feeding off the interesting set-up from Batman Eternal. But I think her story got launched a little bit too "in media res"; the only explanation we had for Catwoman bring Queenpin was her reconciling with her father in Eternal. It probably would have worked better to see Selina cement her leadership of her family while simulataneously weakening the other families as Catwoman. Then, when Valentine's writing turned out to be a bit too slow in getting to the finale, we got the story injected with speed, ended lickety-split, and then we were right back to the same "heist of a lifetime" stories with whip-lash from the shift.

[chipsnopotatoes]

I think I've got to accept that my fave Selina Kyle's 23 year monthly run is over. She seems to be in between completely benched and being a regular guest. Maybe some ASB, Batman, or tec.

Her numbers after Valentine left has just fallen off a cliff. DC might be reluctant to give her another solo unless she stars in a movie.

Well even when she had a movie coming out, DC trashed her. Remember nu52 Catwoman #1?

I'm surprised Frank Tieri's run isn't selling as well as it should. I only recently rediscovered Catwoman after dropping off midway Genevieve's tedious run. But it's exactly how I think she should be written -- smart and fun. Catwoman 50 was a blast. Inakis art is good too. My only beef is the costume which I truly hate. It's a pity it took so long for them to get her right. I guess by that time, a lot of her long time fans have just disengaged from DCComics out of sheer fatigue.

I don't have any faith that Snyder gets the character so I won't be on board his run.

In any case, as long as Gotham doesn't trash young Selina, there will be a version that I enjoy. Camren is absolutely delightful.

[TsukiSentinel]

Well even when she had a movie coming out, DC trashed her. Remember nu52 Catwoman #1?

I'm surprised Frank Tieri's run isn't selling as well as it should. I only recently rediscovered Catwoman after dropping off midway Genevieve's tedious run. But it's exactly how I think she should be written -- smart and fun. Catwoman 50 was a blast. Inakis art is good too. My only beef is the costume which I truly hate. It's a pity it took so long for them to get her right. I guess by that time, a lot of her long time fans have just disengaged from DCComics out of sheer fatigue.

I don't have any faith that Snyder gets the character so I won't be on board his run.

In any case, as long as Gotham doesn't trash young Selina, there will be a version that I enjoy. Camren is absolutely delightful.

But even Gotham's version isn't perfect, and the problem isn't Camren's acting. The problem is that they focus SO MUCH on Bruce that he ends up dragging her character down.

I get that Bruce Wayne isn't the fun-loving sort, but Selina Kyle IS! I miss her throwing muffins and pushing Bruce's buttons.

Secondly, what are her goals in life? Gotham's version of Selina Kyle has absolutely NO aspirations. You could say survival is her goal, but she seems to have such an easy time of it that she might as well be middle-class. This is why 'Scarification' and 'By Fire' were such good episodes for her. They actually delved into her character.

Thirdly, they don't always get her voice right. For instance, during the scene where she was patching Bruce up after he got beat up, why didn't she punch him for playing the hero? We know damn she doesn't take kindly to the generosity or selflessness of others on her behalf.

[heyevaxx]

Well even when she had a movie coming out, DC trashed her. Remember nu52 Catwoman #1?

[rant]
The Dark Knight Rises portrayal of Selina Kyle has never sat well with me:
1) she was never called Catwoman
2) she used a gun and not a whip
3) there was zero chemistry with her and Bruce

In Batman Returns, Catwoman had the whip and the unpredictable, wildness that makes Catwoman a fun character. And there was loads of Bat&Cat sizzle both in and out of costume. When Pfeiffer and Keaton kissed (or licked!) I believed it, I felt it. So many great Bat&Cat moments like the ballroom and the final dialog in the power plant.

How about Hathaway and Bale? I think they kissed twice and I got zero from it, nothing. I felt no emotion at all which is a pity. And I know Anne is a great actress, she's a knockout, and her outfit (razor heels!) was cool. But it did zip for me compared to Pfeiffer's amazing performance.

And just to head this off at the pass: her fall was broken by the awnings, she was knocked out but not killed, and she awoke from the knock out and wasn't resurrected by the cats. Burton has made this very clear but some BR haters always seem to bring this up to me. Lastly, I agree with those who say Penguin was gross. He was. And Bats probably did kill at least twice in BR which is a negative.

But wow! What a great Catwoman and fantastic Bat&Cat interaction. This is what got me collecting Catwoman volume 2.

I have to hand it to The Dark Knight Rises for one thing: I got back into comics big time after it came out because I wanted to know everything I could about Catwoman. I didn't like TDKR's Selina but I wondered if I was just liking what I was familiar with. Well, now I'm a comics junkie and in the end, neither portrayal is perfectly true to the comics.

But for me Pfeiffer hit the main Catwoman notes much much better than any other movie or TV effort.
[/rant]

Oh God, Catwoman v4-01 was awful. The cover, awful. Sexing Bats in costume not knowing who he is, awful. Showing them have sex right the page, also awful! This isn't the 40-70s, we have the Internet now-a-days for that sort of thing. Not to mention, maybe dial down the boob gigantism a bit DC, it makes no sense that the world's best female acrobat and a good fighter would have a 34F chest.

And unlike some Catwoman fans, I was disliking the run starting right with Winick. It was worse under Nocenti but she was so bizzaro world bad that I actually found it fun to see what kinda nutty story or horrible dialog she'd come up with next.

This is partly why I give GV's Queenpin story a pass since Nocenti was soooo bad. Plus, Valentine's dialog is really top notch and I think she captured Selina's voice, at least one I like.

[chipsnopotatoes]

But even Gotham's version isn't perfect, and the problem isn't Camren's acting. The problem is that they focus SO MUCH on Bruce that he ends up dragging her character down.

I get that Bruce Wayne isn't the fun-loving sort, but Selina Kyle IS! I miss her throwing muffins and pushing Bruce's buttons.

Secondly, what are her goals in life? Gotham's version of Selina Kyle has absolutely NO aspirations. You could say survival is her goal, but she seems to have such an easy time of it that she might as well be middle-class. This is why 'Scarification' and 'By Fire' were such good episodes for her. They actually delved into her character.

True. She needs more fleshing out but Camren sells whatever little they give her. She's got star power that one. I'd like to find out her backstory a bit more though.

[heyevaxx]

Camren is absolutely delightful.

Camren Bicondova is wonderful, what a great bit of casting. She'd never really acted before but she did over 70 auditions in LA before hitting it on Gotham. After she did her return audition where she performed some optional "cat like movements" they asked about during the first audition, she was a lock. One of the casting agents left the room and called other production people saying "this is the one, we've cast Selina." What a catch. I'm really looking forward to more Bruce and Selina adventures now that they're paired up.

I'm *not* looking forward to Tabitha being her mentor and whip instructor which is coming. Lucas is such a knock out but I get nothing from her character, except a sigh of relief once she's off screen. I just don't get stone cold killer from her performance. The assassin (Copperhead?) in s1 was excellent, I wish they just brought her back.

But even Gotham's version isn't perfect, and the problem isn't Camren's acting. The problem is that they focus SO MUCH on Bruce that he ends up dragging her character down.

I get that Bruce Wayne isn't the fun-loving sort, but Selina Kyle IS! I miss her throwing muffins and pushing Bruce's buttons.

Secondly, what are her goals in life? Gotham's version of Selina Kyle has absolutely NO aspirations. You could say survival is her goal, but she seems to have such an easy time of it that she might as well be middle-class. This is why 'Scarification' and 'By Fire' were such good episodes for her. They actually delved into her character.

Thirdly, they don't always get her voice right. For instance, during the scene where she was patching Bruce up after he got beat up, why didn't she punch him for playing the hero? We know damn she doesn't take kindly to the generosity or selflessness of others on her behalf.

I agree that Gotham's Selina isn't perfect. I don't even think Blessed Saint Brubaker's Selina was completely perfect (maybe almost perfect!). But Camren has been really good in this TV show adaptation of the Gotham comic book world.

Gotham is going to favor the upcoming Batman with more screen time. Plus, David has more acting experience than Camren. And I don't think we're going to get that light moment with the food fight in s1 again. It's darker darker darker all the way.

In a show with an ensemble cast with lots of sub-plots, they can only fit in so much. Consider that both Barbara and Ivy have been MIA up till last episode. Babs waking up means another character that gets screen time. Maybe we'll get another episode or two featuring Selina's story. I can only hope.

About the tone getting darker, the last episode has Bruce taking that beat down and finally punching the baddie with Selina putting her thug down so they could run. It's hard to write in a fun-loving moment after a bit like that. Instead, they put a nice and gory close up of Selina stitching up Bruce. Also, if she punched him for playing the hero, his speach about how he felt during the fight wouldn't have worked.

Did anyone notice the Knightfall reference in the last episode?

BW: That he couldn't break me, that no one can.

SK: Nobody is unbreakable Bruce

Ok, that's my Catwoman time for the night, thank you!

[Godlike13]

So apparently Selina will only be showing up in Snyder's All-Star Batman? Did he write her at all in his Batman run? And it sounds like maybe he'll only write the villains in individual arcs so we might not even get much of her here. I'm a little bummed by this.

CefUzPqXIAEhLCL.jpg

Ya, this is messed up. Catwoman was one of the few books the made it to 52 issues. Yes it whimpered there, and it is well in cancellation range, but its not like they gave her any creator power to really help (yes Valentine's run was good, but u can't expect a new name to really help sales). Still making it to 52 is not nothing in this market. And now maybe a part in All-Star Batman is the only thing she can get. Thats not very cool. Im not saying they should relaunch her solo, but couldn't they find her something where she will be more heavily featured month to month.

[chipsnopotatoes]

[rant]
The Dark Knight Rises portrayal of Selina Kyle has never sat well with me:
1) she was never called Catwoman
2) she used a gun and not a whip
3) there was zero chemistry with her and Bruce

In Batman Returns, Catwoman had the whip and the unpredictable, wildness that makes Catwoman a fun character. And there was loads of Bat&Cat sizzle both in and out of costume. When Pfeiffer and Keaton kissed (or licked!) I believed it, I felt it. So many great Bat&Cat moments like the ballroom and the final dialog in the power plant.

How about Hathaway and Bale? I think they kissed twice and I got zero from it, nothing. I felt no emotion at all which is a pity. And I know Anne is a great actress, she's a knockout, and her outfit (razor heels!) was cool. But it did zip for me compared to Pfeiffer's amazing performance.

And just to head this off at the pass: her fall was broken by the awnings, she was knocked out but not killed, and she awoke from the knock out and wasn't resurrected by the cats. Burton has made this very clear but some BR haters always seem to bring this up to me. Lastly, I agree with those who say Penguin was gross. He was. And Bats probably did kill at least twice in BR which is a negative.

But wow! What a great Catwoman and fantastic Bat&Cat interaction. This is what got me collecting Catwoman volume 2.

I have to hand it to The Dark Knight Rises for one thing: I got back into comics big time after it came out because I wanted to know everything I could about Catwoman. I didn't like TDKR's Selina but I wondered if I was just liking what I was familiar with. Well, now I'm a comics junkie and in the end, neither portrayal is perfectly true to the comics.

But for me Pfeiffer hit the main Catwoman notes much much better than any other movie or TV effort.
[/rant]

Oh God, Catwoman v4-01 was awful. The cover, awful. Sexing Bats in costume not knowing who he is, awful. Showing them have sex right the page, also awful! This isn't the 40-70s, we have the Internet now-a-days for that sort of thing. Not to mention, maybe dial down the boob gigantism a bit DC, it makes no sense that the world's best female acrobat and a good fighter would have a 34F chest.

And unlike some Catwoman fans, I was disliking the run starting right with Winick. It was worse under Nocenti but she was so bizzaro world bad that I actually found it fun to see what kinda nutty story or horrible dialog she'd come up with next.

This is partly why I give GV's Queenpin story a pass since Nocenti was soooo bad. Plus, Valentine's dialog is really top notch and I think she captured Selina's voice, at least one I like.

I liked both Returns and Rises. Chemistry was sizzling in Returns but more subtle in Rises (maybe it's Nolan's English reserve thing). Don't forget they were also going for the misdirection thing with Miranda Tate. But I really liked their first meeting at Wayne Manor and Selina's scene at the bar. That sold it for me. Unfortunately, she was underutilized because there was so much going on. Overall, I really enjoyed Hathaway's performance just as I did with Michelle's.

Costume wise, I liked Anne's Julie Newmar inspired outfit a lot more. Michelle's looked rather uncomfortable (she did confirm that too). Lindy even had that clever trick with her headpiece so the goggles were out of the way when she didn't need them.

Don't get me started on Judd Winick. His face is permanently on my pin cushion. And Ann must have had mushrooms when she wrote Catwoman. That's the only way to explain it. As for Genevieve, I must say she was a breath of fresh air after Nocenti's looney tunes, but her Selina was just so miserable that she wore me down.

So after all that creative team revolving door, for me, Tieri's is just right even though many dismissed him at first. I regret not getting onboard sooner. Have you read his Catwoman 50? Really well done. I plan on picking up the last two remaining issues because I think we're finally going to learn what the hell Nocenti was talking about in Catwoman 0 (yes THAT one...). If he can tie that loose end up coherently, then he's a genius.

[Huntsman1117]

I liked how strong, confident, intelligent, and skilled Hathaway's Catwoman was. You're right, she wasn't very romantic or flirty with Batman, but like you said Christopher Nolan was probably trying to mislead us with the Miranda Tate relationship. Nolan's Batman movies were, to me, supposed to be more realistic than others so I was surprised Hathaway's Catwoman had high-tech goggles and metallic heels, with no explanation as how a lone cat-burglar like her aquired such sophisticated equipment.

Pfieffer's Catwoman was responsible for my fan hood but she was easily defeated and "killed" repeatedly. That was my only complaint. Her design and characterization was brilliant. I love how dangerous she APPEARED to be; how sensuous and dangerous she looked.

[Huntsman1117]

It looks like Catwoman will continue to keep her hair concealed and will still be wearing the large goggles in "All Star Batman", which is disappointing. But maybe they'll do away with her heavy combat boots and make her more sleek & sensuous. Her silhouette on the cover shown above doesn't look bad.

I will agree with the thought that DC Comics sort of hates Catwoman, LOL. They arent doing her any justice. Maybe it's because they don't know what to do with her on a monthly basis. Maybe they think she's better as a guest star. Maybe they think she's all-together lame and weak. Who knows... I just hope somebody at DC will make Catwoman an awesome character with an awesome book SOON.

[Huntsman1117]

Frank Tieri responded to a tweet on Twitter, which complained about Catwoman and Poison Ivy being shelved, by saying this may not last forever for either character, and that he's currently working on something at DC, and he hopes he can fit Catwoman in it somewhere. Fingers crossed!