Common misconceptions of characters you like

[Sutekh]

Isn't it remarkable how the exact same phenomenon (the sky-high sales figures of a new product) can "prove" either of two different things, according to the observer's bias?

I totally have that switch in my brain.

1st Avengers movie makes a bazillion quatloo? I loved it, and a billion other people did, so we can't all be wrong!

2nd Avengers movie makes a bazillion+1 quatloo? I didn't love it, and clearly financial success doesn't have anything to do with quality!

But I'm totally aware of my hypocrisy, and knowing is half the battle.

(Then again, I thought the Green Lantern movie was fun, and found Nolan's Batman movies deadly dull, so I'm probably also insane.)

[The Darknight Detective]

Because his real super power is to always be the most powerful hero.

Just like Batman's is to always be the cleverest hero.

Very true. Unless poor sales for both of them alter things, I doubt it will change, either.

[Agent Z]

Yes, but every marketplace has its own built-in bias. And the bias of the comic book marketplace considers all those aspects of Wonder Woman not to be worthwhile--whereas in a differnt marketplace, those same aspects would have worth. It's too bad Dr. Marston decided to publish his creation in comic books and not in some other format. Princess Diana would probably be a Disney Princess by now--not that that's a desirable fate, but that's one direction the character could have gone.

Um, I'm not sure if Marston could have marketed his ideas to the Disney crowd without seriously altering the concept. I'd say the way Perez, Rucka and Jiminez wrote her is more kid friendly.

[Lorendiac]

I hear ya.

The same can be said for Superman and his Rogues Gallery. The biggest problems are "power creep" in which a popular character's powers increase over time and the current notion that a character's origin should be their mission statement. Wonder Woman is steeped in mythology, so people think she should always fight mythological villains. Superman is an alien who's the strongest man in the world, so people think he should be having slugfests with alien world-beaters.

I've never seen any statistics on the subject of how others feel about this issue, but I can speak for myself. What you describe definitely is not what I want and expect. I like some variety in my life!

I don't want Superman to always be fighting fellow extraterrestrials, or Wonder Woman to always be fighting fellow supernatural entities.

Heck, I've been known to complain about periods when it seemed that the X-Men were spending a year or two at a stretch only fighting a mixture of A) other mutants, and B) non-mutants who think all mutants are evil and want to kill or enslave them just to be on the safe side! As if the only thing that mattered about each of the X-Men were the little detail that they all had mutant genes? I like to see the X-Men facing other types of challenges -- at least some of the time -- such as high-powered adversaries who frankly don't care if you're a "mutant" or not; they only care about whether you're planning to use your superpowers to derail their agendas! (Regardless of how the heck you acquired your superpowers in the first place.)

Come to think of it: I was also very surprised -- and not in a good way! -- when I bought the Showcase black-and-white reprint volumes for the Silver Age Metal Men, and found that, for no particular reason I could see, those robt superheroes seemed to spend virtually all their time fighting other robots! What, was there some superhero union rule that didn't allow them to tangle with anyone except "their own kind"? Were they required to leave all the non-robot mad scientists and super-powered villains and alien invaders to the JLA or the Doom Patrol or the Teen Titans? (I was tempted to say "racial discrimination," except that I don't really think robots qualify as a "race.")

[Jim Kelly]

Um, I'm not sure if Marston could have marketed his ideas to the Disney crowd without seriously altering the concept. I'd say the way Perez, Rucka and Jiminez wrote her is more kid friendly.

I anticipated that response and then I thought of all the other Disney Princesses--I can't think of one that wasn't sanitized when Disney adapted them for their cartoons. In broad strokes, the original Wonder Woman suits the needs of Disney--the changes of Perez, Rucka and Jimenez make her more friendly to hormonal young men, I'm not sure they do much for eight year old girls.

[Agent Z]

I've never seen any statistics on the subject of how others feel about this issue, but I can speak for myself. What you describe definitely is not what I want and expect. I like some variety in my life!

I don't want Superman to always be fighting fellow extraterrestrials, or Wonder Woman to always be fighting fellow supernatural entities.

Heck, I've been known to complain about periods when it seemed that the X-Men were spending a year or two at a stretch only fighting a mixture of A) other mutants, and B) non-mutants who think all mutants are evil and want to kill or enslave them just to be on the safe side! As if the only thing that mattered about each of the X-Men were the little detail that they all had mutant genes? I like to see the X-Men facing other types of challenges -- at least some of the time -- such as high-powered adversaries who frankly don't care if you're a "mutant" or not; they only care about whether you're planning to use your superpowers to derail their agendas! (Regardless of how the heck you acquired your superpowers in the first place.)

Come to think of it: I was also very surprised -- and not in a good way! -- when I bought the Showcase black-and-white reprint volumes for the Silver Age Metal Men, and found that, for no particular reason I could see, those robt superheroes seemed to spend virtually all their time fighting other robots! What, was there some superhero union rule that didn't allow them to tangle with anyone except "their own kind"? Were they required to leave all the non-robot mad scientists and super-powered villains and alien invaders to the JLA or the Doom Patrol or the Teen Titans? (I was tempted to say "racial discrimination," except that I don't really think robots qualify as a "race.")

Isn't this kind of like complaining that Buffy only fought demons, wizards and gods or the Ghostbusters only fought ghosts? Not that I mind when superheroes mix it up every now and then, but you shouldn't be surprised when there's a reoccuring theme to their villains.

[mathew101281]

I've never seen any statistics on the subject of how others feel about this issue, but I can speak for myself. What you describe definitely is not what I want and expect. I like some variety in my life!

I don't want Superman to always be fighting fellow extraterrestrials, or Wonder Woman to always be fighting fellow supernatural entities.

Heck, I've been known to complain about periods when it seemed that the X-Men were spending a year or two at a stretch only fighting a mixture of A) other mutants, and B) non-mutants who think all mutants are evil and want to kill or enslave them just to be on the safe side! As if the only thing that mattered about each of the X-Men were the little detail that they all had mutant genes? I like to see the X-Men facing other types of challenges -- at least some of the time -- such as high-powered adversaries who frankly don't care if you're a "mutant" or not; they only care about whether you're planning to use your superpowers to derail their agendas! (Regardless of how the heck you acquired your superpowers in the first place.)

Come to think of it: I was also very surprised -- and not in a good way! -- when I bought the Showcase black-and-white reprint volumes for the Silver Age Metal Men, and found that, for no particular reason I could see, those robt superheroes seemed to spend virtually all their time fighting other robots! What, was there some superhero union rule that didn't allow them to tangle with anyone except "their own kind"? Were they required to leave all the non-robot mad scientists and super-powered villains and alien invaders to the JLA or the Doom Patrol or the Teen Titans? (I was tempted to say "racial discrimination," except that I don't really think robots qualify as a "race.")

I kind of disagree with you about heroes and the villains they face. Their are so many heroes. On the shelves right now that individual heroes need distinguishing traits to stand out. Having themed rogue's galleries is part of that. I find characters with hodgepodge rogue's galleries to be aimless and lacking in direction most of the time. All the really iconic rogue's galleries have through lines and themes to them. That's one of the reasons I feel a lot of new hero books fail. They have this tendency to slap together a rogue's gallery using existing characters without thinking about whether their is some kind of internal logic as to why this hero is fighting this villian. Yes heroes fight villains, but the great hero/villian pairings are more then that. The great ones have themes in common or in contrast with each other. Without this you just have random people fighting each other.

[confusiongrows]

Barbara Gordon
The misconception that she's just a sidekick as Batgirl despite that having never been true until it was retconned into her story in Batgirl: Year One.

I'll add to this by saying that I hate it when Supergirl, or indeed Superboy (Conner) are called sidekicks. Supergirl was intended as a solo character at her inception and has never regularly worked alongside her cousin. Conner has barely ever worked alongside Clark either.

[Agent Z]

I'll add to this by saying that I hate it when Supergirl, or indeed Superboy (Conner) are called sidekicks. Supergirl was intended as a solo character at her inception and has never regularly worked alongside her cousin. Conner has barely ever worked alongside Clark either.

Of course, with those names it's hardly surprising when unfamiliar fans get the wrong idea.

[Lorendiac]

Isn't this kind of like complaining that Buffy only fought demons, wizards and gods or the Ghostbusters only fought ghosts? Not that I mind when superheroes mix it up every now and then, but you shouldn't be surprised when there's a reoccuring theme to their villains.

"Recurring theme" is not the same thing as "constant repetition of the same note." I wasn't trying to say: "The X-Men should only fight Magneto once, and then he should never become a threat again, because for him to ever return would bore me to death." And I wasn't trying to say: "The X-Men should only fight mutant-hunting Sentinels once, and then never have that problem rear its ugly head again, because a second Sentinels story would bore me to death." I was only saying there should be other themes mixed in for variety, year after year, to keep us guessing! Instead of just all that nonsense about "mutants should conquer the world!" and "we should exterminate mutants to make sure they don't conquer the world!" (Two sides of the same coin, basically.) One benefit would be to remind the readers that even if the X-Men weren't mutants (but had the same powers and personalities), they'd still be superheroes who could handle a wide range of emergencies as necessary!

The Ghostbusters were not "cops" or "superheroes" in the first place. They were specialists; a small group of businessmen who were somewhat competent at dealing with ghosts . . . and would have been utterly helpless and clueless if suddenly confronted by, let's say, a gang of ordinary bank robbers armed with automatic weapons. So I don't expect them to do more than just use their special gear to deal with the one type of problem they actually know how to deal with!

The main point with Buffy (the way I look at it) would be that she did not literally fight vampires and nothing but, every day of the week, even though her series title was "Buffy the Vampire Slayer!" She branched out more than that. You didn't know for a fact: "Last week had a vampire as the main villain, therefore so does this week's episode, and so will next week's episode, all the way through to the end of the series!" Granted, the selection of adversaries for her was somewhat limited by the basic premise that Buffy lived in a world where virtually any kind of "super-powered" threat was going to be "supernatural" in some way, rather than just "alien" or "wearing a high-tech battlesuit" or "freakishly altered in a radioactive accident" or whatever.

That's in sharp contrast to the premises of the MU and the DCU, where there are a wide range of possible explanations for why a particular villain has exceptional abilities which allow him to present a real challenge to the superhero whom he is currently clashing with. If an individual superhero, or entire team of them, is going to operate in the MU or the DCU, I like to see the writer of any given title take full advantage of the many possibilities instead of insisting, for instance, that "only gangs of evil robots ever get to cross swords with the heroic Metal Men."

[Agent Z]

"Recurring theme" is not the same thing as "constant repetition of the same note." I wasn't trying to say: "The X-Men should only fight Magneto once, and then he should never become a threat again, because for him to ever return would bore me to death." And I wasn't trying to say: "The X-Men should only fight mutant-hunting Sentinels once, and then never have that problem rear its ugly head again, because a second Sentinels story would bore me to death." I was only saying there should be other themes mixed in for variety, year after year, to keep us guessing! Instead of just all that nonsense about "mutants should conquer the world!" and "we should exterminate mutants to make sure they don't conquer the world!" (Two sides of the same coin, basically.) One benefit would be to remind the readers that even if the X-Men weren't mutants (but had the same powers and personalities), they'd still be superheroes who could handle a wide range of emergencies as necessary!

The Ghostbusters were not "cops" or "superheroes" in the first place. They were specialists; a small group of businessmen who were somewhat competent at dealing with ghosts . . . and would have been utterly helpless and clueless if suddenly confronted by, let's say, a gang of ordinary bank robbers armed with automatic weapons. So I don't expect them to do more than just use their special gear to deal with the one type of problem they actually know how to deal with!

The main point with Buffy (the way I look at it) would be that she did not literally fight vampires and nothing but, every day of the week, even though her series title was "Buffy the Vampire Slayer!" She branched out more than that. You didn't know for a fact: "Last week had a vampire as the main villain, and so does this week's episode, and so will next week's episode, all the eway through to the end of the series!" Granted, the selection of adversaries for her was somewhat limited by the basic premise that Buffy lived in a world where virtually any kind of "super-powered" threat was going to be "supernatural" in some way, rather than just "alien" or "wearing a high-tech battlesuit" or "freakishly altered in a radioactive accident" or whatever.

That's in sharp contrast to the premises of the MU and the DCU, where there are a wide range of possible explanations for why a particular villain has exceptional abilities which allow him to present a real challenge to the superhero whom he is currently clashing with. If an individual superhero, or entire team of them, is going to operate in the MU or the DCU, I like to see the writer of any given title take full advantage of the many possibilities instead of insisting, for instance, that "only gangs of evil robots ever get to cross swords with the heroic Metal Men."

Actually there was an episode of the Ghostbusters t.v series where they take to fighting human criminals after their ghost hunting business goes through a temporary dry spell.

Teams like Justice League, Avengers or Titans tend to have more variety in the criminals they face. Of course, that's to do with the fact that it's characters from different franchises bringing their own Rogues Galleries.

[Frontier]

Speaking of Rogues Galleries, it seems like writers forget that Green Lantern actually has villains who are based on Earth and that not everybody he/they fights is from space.

[Lorendiac]

Speaking of Rogues Galleries, it seems like writers forget that Green Lantern actually has villains who are based on Earth and that not everybody he/they fights is from space.

On the other hand . . . way back around the early 1980s, there was a period when Hal Jordan was basically "banished from Earth" by the Guardians because they felt he'd been forgetting that there were lots of villains out in space, threatening other civilizations of his sector, and he should not be spending most of his time concentrating on local law enforcement on his home planet!

[Frontier]

On the other hand . . . way back around the early 1980s, there was a period when Hal Jordan was basically "banished from Earth" by the Guardians because they felt he'd been forgetting that there were lots of villains out in space, threatening other civilizations of his sector, and he should not be spending most of his time concentrating on local law enforcement on his home planet!

The Guardians have a fair point .

[Agent Z]

Well, when you think 'space cop' you don't just think villains from Earth do you?