Common misconceptions of characters you like

[Crazy Diamond]

I don't recall the specifics of that time period - hey, it's been 20 years, and I'm not as Hal fan - but I think that it was stated in a bunch of stories that he needed some extra juice besides his internalized powers from the central battery; cronal energy, Galactus cosmic power, etc.

Now that I think about it, that makes sense. He did absorb the Cyborg in the Emerald Knight one-shot. Maybe they should have made him an energy vampire. For example, Parallax absorbs heat energy --> target freezes up, absorbs light energy --> no electricity, power outages, etc. That doesn't explain how he survived getting blown up or cut in two though. I remember reading Parallax View where he basically says he went somewhere else when Oa blew up during his fight with Kyle and in Legacy he just kinda pulled something like this:
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/ch...ah-ouchies.gif

[dancj]

If DC had left it as an Elseworld story, however, there wouldn't have been any chain of events to set in motion.

I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Not only that, but it didn't set off any sort of chain of events. It left Babs as nothing more than a victim (which was the intention). It wasn't until other writers saw how obviously sexist it was that they decided to fix that crap.
A fan could say that becoming Oracle was the best thing to happen to her which is perfectly valid if you prefer that incarnation, but I have a hard time believing any fan thinks that TKJ was somehow good for her.

Directly, TKJ was terrible for her character - obviously. It just goes down to how far back you trace the cause and effect. The Killing Joke caused Babs to be in the situation which prompted John Ostrander (IIRC) to want to reinvent her as a far better character than she was as Batgirl.

I get the impression people just want to dispute this because they dislike TKJ.

[dancj]

Not always; originally, they were just a bunch of guys who could fix stuff taking steps to actually do so. You could call them, at best, amoral; but they were actually no different than a king of old or an expansionist state, only with more raw belical power.

It was only when Millar took over that the hedonistic, selfish -minorly racist - side came into play. Before it, the Authirty just wasn't tied to the notions of morality of the common man - the same way chiefs of state aren't.

I guess it depends what you consider a villain. I'd consider chiefs of state to be villains when they use their power the way The Authority did in Ellis's run

[t hedge coke]

I guess it depends what you consider a villain. I'd consider chiefs of state to be villains when they use their power the way The Authority did in Ellis's run

The only really questionable act I can remember from Ellis' run was wiping out alternate-Italy, which, in terms of worlds-saving (plural), might be understandable. Otherwise, it's mostly the bully-indulgence of most action movies or, really, most superhero stories. Justified brutalizing of others.

Millar-forward, they get bigger and more dodgy, but, then, too, no more dodgy than any other group trying to or actively running the show (which I figured was kind of the point).

[The Darknight Detective]

I'm not sure how that's relevant.

If it had stayed as an Elseworld story, then New Earth Barbara could have been created in a totally different way (or as a disabled Oracle still, but without the Joker-humiliation stuff - I think many Babs-as-Batgirl fans could have handled that far, far better).

[dancj]

If it had stayed as an Elseworld story, then New Earth Barbara could have been created in a totally different way (or as a disabled Oracle still, but without the Joker-humiliation stuff - I think many Babs-as-Batgirl fans could have handled that far, far better).

I'm still not seeing how it's relevant to whether The Killing Joke indirectly lead to Barbara becoming Oracle.

[The Darknight Detective]

I'm still not seeing how it's relevant to whether The Killing Joke indirectly lead to Barbara becoming Oracle.

I wasn't arguing that, though. We all know that story was used as a springboard for Oracle. All I'm saying is we still could have gotten Oracle without tying it to TKJ, that's all.

[Buried Alien]

Tim Drake
- wasn't a genius pre crisis
- didn't use to follow Batman with a camera night before he became Robin
- was never shown to be interested in photography

???

There never was a Pre-COIE Tim Drake portrayed in comic books; the character was created three years after DC started the Post-COIE era.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[dancj]

I wasn't arguing that, though. We all know that story was used as a springboard for Oracle. All I'm saying is we still could have gotten Oracle without tying it to TKJ, that's all.

Everyone knows that we could have got there without The Killing Joke. The whole point of this discussion was that spiderbytes claimed it was a misconception that "The Killing Joke is the best thing to ever happen to Barbara Gordon" - and some people (I forget who now) started claiming that the end result of TKJ was Oracle.

[The Darknight Detective]

Everyone knows that we could have got there without The Killing Joke. The whole point of this discussion was that spiderbytes claimed it was a misconception that "The Killing Joke is the best thing to ever happen to Barbara Gordon" - and some people (I forget who now) started claiming that the end result of TKJ was Oracle.

Okay, I don't know what I'm supposed to be arguing for or against now, dancj.

[Agent Z]

Pre-Under The Red Hood Jason Todd was no more impulsive than any other Robin.