Tigra vs Puma: Who would win

[oldschool]

Tigra has never really had any kind of strong link to Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
This seems like an arbitrary choice.

MTU 067.jpg


Other than one cool MTU issue by Chris Claremont and John Byrne, I would have to agree with this….cannot think of any connection at all between them over the years.

[Spidey5640]

MTU 067.jpg


Other than one cool MTU issue by Chris Claremont and John Byrne, I would have to agree with this….cannot think of any connection at all between them over the years.

Agree, although I do like Tigra and think she has a lot of potential. that has gone unfulfilled for decades. Don't know if that could translate into being part of Spider-man mythos but she does have a science background that could be used as a basis.

[Darthfury78]

Tigra has never really had any kind of strong link to Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
This seems like an arbitrary choice.

Gerry Conway was the first ASM to pair Greer Grant with Spider-Man in a team-up adventure and J.M. DeMatteis was the last ASM writer to use her and Spider-Man together. After that, no one else has used Tigra and Spider-Man together since 1982. It might had been fun to had seen Tigra featured in Kraven's Last Hunt if DeMatteis had used her in that story in addition to Spider-Man.

Had Conway integrated Greer into Spider-Man's world, she might have avoided being used as an avatar for Tigra. In addition, Greer might have been Peter's first anti-catwoman relationship whereby she's a cat themed character who works as a part of the NYPD of which Felicia Hardy is not. Greer might have been the perfect contrast to Felicia as one of Peter's close friends, especially if Conway had transferred her from University of Chicago to ESU as one of Peter's classmates. The one thing that might have bonded them together was the lose of a loved one which as Greer's husband and Peter's Gwen Stacy.

[Darthfury78]

Agree, although I do like Tigra and think she has a lot of potential. that has gone unfulfilled for decades. Don't know if that could translate into being part of Spider-man mythos but she does have a science background that could be used as a basis.

Her science background would make her into a very good Crime Scene Investigator for the NYPD. She could essentially take Carlie Cooper's place in this area because Greer has already completed her Police training and joined the NYPD.

[Dr. Jay]

I love it when people can attached to secondary characters.

Peter was always macking on his female guest stars in Marvel Team-Up. I remember heavy duty flirtations with an amnesiac Black Widow and Dazzler. Not to mention Red Sonja when she guest starred. He's just a playa...

[Dan Slott]

Gerry Conway was the first ASM to pair Greer Grant with Spider-Man in a team-up adventure and J.M. DeMatteis was the last ASM writer to use her and Spider-Man together. After that, no one else has used Tigra and Spider-Man together since 1982. It might had been fun to had seen Tigra featured in Kraven's Last Hunt if DeMatteis had used her in that story in addition to Spider-Man.

I disagree.
For DeMatteis to have used her in KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT would have been a very bizarre and arbitrary choice... based solely off of one Marvel Team-Up story and an out of continuity Spidey Super Story. Having any other hero running around during KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT (especially an arbitrary one) would have pulled focus away from the very simple/clean/poetic focus of the bare bones cast of Spider-Man, Kraven, Vermin, and MJ.

Had Conway integrated Greer into Spider-Man's world, she might have avoided being used as an avatar for Tigra. In addition, Greer might have been Peter's first anti-catwoman relationship whereby she's a cat themed character who works as a part of the NYPD of which Felicia Hardy is not. Greer might have been the perfect contrast to Felicia as one of Peter's close friends, especially if Conway had transferred her from University of Chicago to ESU as one of Peter's classmates. The one thing that might have bonded them together was the lose of a loved one which as Greer's husband and Peter's Gwen Stacy.

HAD they had done this... It MIGHT have gone this way... IF there was a story where...

When you talk about Peter/Spider-Man and Greer/Tigra, you keep mentioning things that DIDN'T happen in the past, but that you would have LIKED to have happened. That's called "head canon". There are stories that you wished had taken place, but in the end, they didn't happen at all.

It's okay to want things-- and even to have wanted things to have happened differently. But "head canon" cannot act as "actual canon." Actual canon (or actual continuity) belongs to books we've all read-- and experiences we've all shared together as an audience. In that actual continuity, there have been only 1 or 2 adventures where Spidey & Tigra have properly teamed up and spent quality time together. And those are two adventures that most of the newer audience (of the past 30 years) haven't really experienced. So this whole Spidey & Tigra shipping really feels like it comes out of left field. Sorry.

[Darthfury78]

When you talk about Peter/Spider-Man and Greer/Tigra, you keep mentioning things that DIDN'T happen in the past, but that you would have LIKED to have happened. That's called "head canon". There are stories that you wished had taken place, but in the end, they didn't happen at all.

It's okay to want things-- and even to have wanted things to have happened differently. But "head canon" cannot act as "actual canon." Actual canon (or actual continuity) belongs to books we've all read-- and experiences we've all shared together as an audience. In that actual continuity, there have been only 1 or 2 adventures where Spidey & Tigra have properly teamed up and spent quality time together. And those are two adventures that most of the newer audience (of the past 30 years) haven't really experienced. So this whole Spidey & Tigra shipping really feels like it comes out of left field. Sorry.

In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past. Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her? Not to mention that Dr. Ock is the Superior Spider-Man? Yeah. That's left field also. And everything is arbitrary in the world of fiction. What one writer finds left field could be interesting to another. I am sorry but I see a lot of left field tactics in the world of Marvel in recent years. And Tigra and Spider-Man is no different from Spider-Man and Captain Marvel(Carol Danvers) or Spider-Man and Captain Britain(Brian Braddock).

What is left field is the fact that Tigra never really fit in with the Avengers until Roger Stern made it work. in addition, Stern was the one who got the She-Hulk into the Avengers, as well as John Byrne on the Fantastic Four. I am am sure a lot of folks at Marvel at the time felt that both heroines felt out of place because neither of them had a history with either teams until a writer made it so. Thus you have your opinion just like any other writer.

And the biggest left field of all time is Black Cat as a crime boss....

[Cosmic Spider]

The Puma, More commonly called a Cougar, Is the most successful large cat in the Americas'. It is a Powerful, Agile, Cunning predator who adapts well to almost any environment.

The Tiger, The Worlds largest extant Cat species shares all those traits in common with the Puma; And is much, Much larger.

Pretty simple math really. When Tiger meets Puma; Tiger eats Puma...The only question left is: Does Puma return the Favor?

[Darthfury78]

The Puma, More commonly called a Cougar, Is the most successful large cat in the Americas'. It is a Powerful, Agile, Cunning predator who adapts well to almost any environment.

The Tiger, The Worlds largest extant Cat species shares all those traits in common with the Puma; And is much, Much larger.

Pretty simple math really. When Tiger meets Puma; Tiger eats Puma...The only question left is: Does Puma return the Favor?

Greer's intellect is on par with Peter Parker. And Thomas Fireheart is experience with various fighting techniques. Thus it might be interesting match up. Especially if Greer was trained by the Taskmaster.

[Dan Slott]

In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past.

Yes. In the same way that Cloak & Dagger were "left field" when they were created. Or the Prolwer. Or the Lizard-- or ANY character when they first appeared.

That is not comparable to someone creating an improbable relationship to a character Spider-Man had 2 encounters with over 50+ years, just because of your personal head canon and your desire to "ship" them.

Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her?

I think you're confusing story concepts with "Why won't Dan do the one thing that I, Darthfury78, wants done."
Felicia's turn, the Doc Ock/Superior storyline, Flash becoming Agent Venom, Kaine getting cured in Spider-Island and becoming the new Scarlet Spider...
...are all status changes that came out of stories *I* the writer wished to tell.

Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.

The Felicia Crime Boss turn didn't come out of nowhere.
It came from Superior Spider-Man running into the Black Cat. How WOULD he deal with her? That is the premise that spiraled into-- she flirts with him, he takes her out, she goes to jail, she loses everything, she breaks out.... and what happens next.

That's a world away from: Hey, remember that Marvel Team-Up from 33 years ago? Someone should really bring back that thing from it... that didn't sort of even happen in it... because.... well... WOULDN'T it have been cool if that character WERE in Kraven's Last Hunt?

THAT is left field.
And that's being generous to the field.
That's more like out of left continent.
Or left spiral arm of the galaxy. ;-)

[Vegeta]

The Felicia Crime Boss turn didn't come out of nowhere.
It came from Superior Spider-Man running into the Black Cat. How WOULD he deal with her? That is the premise that spiraled into-- she flirts with him, he takes her out, she goes to jail, she loses everything, she breaks out.... and what happens next.

Actually, I'm still trying to piece together why she was robbing an apartment when Superior Spider-Man ran into her and broke her teeth? Last time we saw her she was still a Hero for Hire and was even asking Spidey if he'd help her join the Avengers by putting in a good word in your "Big Time" arc. Even the Daredevil crossover had her do the right thing and not take the mega drive from Matt. (Not to mention her duel identity was already well known by both the police department and the media at large since like, the 80's. Not really sure why her 'rep" is such a big deal all of a sudden, when she's already been publicly defeated before.)

[Darthfury78]

Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.

No one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Tigra story. Just as no one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Captain Marvel story either. I asked for your opinion. That was it.

Every Spider-Man writer has a favorite. What doesn't interest you someone else will take advantage of. Just like Peter dating Carol Danvers, which you went on record to say that if you had done the story, one of them would be a Skrull.

And the Spider-Man and Tigra story would not in any way revisit the old Marvel Team-up from where their last adventure left off. Although, I did mentioned that I wished that she was integrated into Spider-Man's world as NYPD Crime Scene Investigator, in retrospect. It doesn't mean that you have to write it anymore than someone wanting to write a Spider-Man and Wolverine team-up adventure against Thomas Fireheart: The Puma.

[Spidey5640]

Yes. In the same way that Cloak & Dagger were "left field" when they were created. Or the Prolwer. Or the Lizard-- or ANY character when they first appeared.

That is not comparable to someone creating an improbable relationship to a character Spider-Man had 2 encounters with over 50+ years, just because of your personal head canon and your desire to "ship" them.


I think you're confusing story concepts with "Why won't Dan do the one thing that I, Darthfury78, wants done."
Felicia's turn, the Doc Ock/Superior storyline, Flash becoming Agent Venom, Kaine getting cured in Spider-Island and becoming the new Scarlet Spider...
...are all status changes that came out of stories *I* the writer wished to tell.

Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.

The Felicia Crime Boss turn didn't come out of nowhere.
It came from Superior Spider-Man running into the Black Cat. How WOULD he deal with her? That is the premise that spiraled into-- she flirts with him, he takes her out, she goes to jail, she loses everything, she breaks out.... and what happens next.

That's a world away from: Hey, remember that Marvel Team-Up from 33 years ago? Someone should really bring back that thing from it... that didn't sort of even happen in it... because.... well... WOULDN'T it have been cool if that character WERE in Kraven's Last Hunt?

THAT is left field.
And that's being generous to the field.
That's more like out of left continent.
Or left spiral arm of the galaxy. ;-)

Nice explanation of the process Dan. Will say I think you're a little harsh on Darth, he's only throwing an idea out there. No harm in that is there?

[gwenFan]

Wait didn't Puma was said to be able to destroy the Beyonder?

Anyway I miss the Puma.

[Darthfury78]

I love it when people can attached to secondary characters.

Peter was always macking on his female guest stars in Marvel Team-Up. I remember heavy duty flirtations with an amnesiac Black Widow and Dazzler. Not to mention Red Sonja when she guest starred. He's just a playa...

The Marvel Team-Up series could had been used as a testing ground to determine which characters could be ready for Prime Time in to pages of Amazing Spider-Man in a frequent guest spot. And those who had appeared at least two times like Ms. Marvel, Captain Britain, Tigra, and the Black Widow could have been brought over into Spider-Man's world. In particular, Greer Grant, The Black Widow, and Brian Braddock respectively. I feel that Tigra has been misplaced in the Marvel Universe as I viewed her as a person whose more of a loner like Spider-Man or The Black Cat.