Discussion with Tom Brevoort on Spider-Man marriage

[SpideyCeo]

Peter is never gonna grow up or be married in 616, he's rooted to be the perfect manchild even though hes been married before, it's rooted to his core hes a overgrown teenager who everybody treats less seriously.

[WeirdSpider]

it's rooted to his core hes a overgrown teenager who everybody treats less seriously.

No it isn't.

Before Bland New Day he was written as an adult who people did take seriously. Peter being written as a manchild is only the way he's been written since One More Day.

[Lukmendes]

No it isn't.

Before Bland New Day he was written as an adult who people did take seriously. Peter being written as a manchild is only the way he's been written since One More Day.

Problem is that this is how Marvel sees him now, and it may not change any time soon, though unders Slott he did have times where he was more mature and competent, so at least Marvel allows him to be more mature once in a while.

[WeirdSpider]

Problem is that this is how Marvel sees him now

Yeah, and the way that Marvel sees him makes it quite clear that they don't understand the character.

[comicscollector]

Spidey spent about 20 real life years married to MJ, and the only people who had a real problem with it was Marvel itself, not the fanbase, so it's hardly that much of a risk, specialy since it's a risk already taken and it was only removed because of a childish "muh Spidey must be young".

Funny as always to see posters claiming to talk in name of the fan base.
To that idea actually make sense it would imply that all fan base thinks the same way,as all Spider-Man fans share a hive mind or something lol.
Anyways i never cared that much for the weeding,and remember that article in the wizard mentioning the marriage as a problem in the stories,and i remember when i read that article that i agreed with most of what that article said.
No complains from me when the marriage got rid of the stories,comic book stories status quo should not be the same forever in the stories.
The point of the Spider-Man stories is about Peter Parker not about a marital status.
At least when i started Reading Spider-Man stories the title of the comic books was not the Amazing Marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane but actually the Amazing Spider-Man.

[Miles To Go]

That's odd I started reading when Peter&MJ was married and I never felt that way. What I did feel was that Peter had a lot of old friends who where important to him that I knew very little about. It took me some years to really get a feel about Flash, Felicia, Nick (the slimeball), Gloria, Betty and Harry. It was great. I got a peek into a fully fleshed out characters life with ups and downs during the years. The emphasise was allways on Spider-Man and the enemies but the realstionships that had developed over the years provided such a rich backdrop that really elevated the title for me.

Precisely this.

Without someone mature enough to put up with Peter's crap and love him for it regardless, everything Peter goes through feels hollow and unaccomplished. Without a meaningful relationship, there are no stakes, being a paparazzi was this, working for Horizon was this, Parker Industries was this, MJ working for Stark was this, you didn't care about any of it because there was noone to share the experience with...only Aunt May and characters like Bobbi who'd barely been in the title and had no years of real experience with Peter.

When you think of everything since OMD, the words you keep coming back to are blown opportunity.

[arosenbarger]

Precisely this.

Without someone mature enough to put up with Peter's crap and love him for it regardless, everything Peter goes through feels hollow and unaccomplished. Without a meaningful relationship, there are no stakes, being a paparazzi was this, working for Horizon was this, Parker Industries was this, MJ working for Stark was this, you didn't care about any of it because there was noone to share the experience with...only Aunt May and characters like Bobbi who'd barely been in the title and had no years of real experience with Peter.

When you think of everything since OMD, the words you keep coming back to are blown opportunity.

I kinda wonder - if Peter crossed over to meet Miles, if Marvel would allow Peter to cross over, meeting his happily married, father of Mayday, NOT DEAD, MC2 counterpart. Would provide an interesting story basis, in my opinion.

[Miles To Go]

I kinda wonder - if Peter crossed over to meet Miles, if Marvel would allow Peter to cross over, meeting his happily married, father of Mayday, NOT DEAD, MC2 counterpart. Would provide an interesting story basis, in my opinion.

Yeah, Peter could learn a thing or two from MC2 Peter since he works in forensics, maybe it could inspire him to seek employment more with the force.

He can also still cross over with his RYV counterpart

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, and the way that Marvel sees him makes it quite clear that they don't understand the character.

True, and unfortunately Spidey isn't an isolated case...

Funny as always to see posters claiming to talk in name of the fan base.
To that idea actually make sense it would imply that all fan base thinks the same way,as all Spider-Man fans share a hive mind or something lol.
Anyways i never cared that much for the weeding,and remember that article in the wizard mentioning the marriage as a problem in the stories,and i remember when i read that article that i agreed with most of what that article said.
No complains from me when the marriage got rid of the stories,comic book stories status quo should not be the same forever in the stories.
The point of the Spider-Man stories is about Peter Parker not about a marital status.
At least when i started Reading Spider-Man stories the title of the comic books was not the Amazing Marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane but actually the Amazing Spider-Man.

Of course no fanbase is going to agree to everything, people are going to read anything for different reasons, and there are things some people will hate that others will love, he'll I'm sure that Felicia's shitty near-yandere phase from the 90's was loved by some, but anyways, the fact is that they even tried to kill MJ to get rid of the marriage, and also derailing MJ's personality to make her unlikable to make getting rid of her easier, same was done with Peter, but fans bitched and the marriage was kept, only when OMD happened Marvel thought "**** this stupid fanbase, we're doing this", if the marriage was really generaly seen as a problem then getting rid of it would have both happened earlier and fans wouldn't have bitched much.

[Miles To Go]

if the marriage was really generaly seen as a problem then getting rid of it would have both happened earlier and fans wouldn't have bitched much.

Yeah, plus we would never have gotten an RYV mini-series or ongoing if Marvel had an issue with the marriage. They know it has an audience.

They almost got rid of the marriage in the daily strip (instead of a devil deal, they would tell single Spidey stories in flashback), but the official word is 'fan feedback' forced them to quickly pull a Dallas and have Peter wake up married to MJ again.

I've heard down the gossip grapevine the plan was to have always done this regardless if there had been bad feedback or not, it was just Stan having fun. The strip's taken jabs at a lot of Marvel decisions over the years like Peter turning down Tony's suggestion of a public unmasking and even Doc Ock fighting crime with Jonah's backing.

[comicscollector]

True, and unfortunately Spidey isn't an isolated case...



Of course no fanbase is going to agree to everything, people are going to read anything for different reasons, and there are things some people will hate that others will love, he'll I'm sure that Felicia's shitty near-yandere phase from the 90's was loved by some, but anyways, the fact is that they even tried to kill MJ to get rid of the marriage, and also derailing MJ's personality to make her unlikable to make getting rid of her easier, same was done with Peter, but fans bitched and the marriage was kept, only when OMD happened Marvel thought "**** this stupid fanbase, we're doing this", if the marriage was really generaly seen as a problem then getting rid of it would have both happened earlier and fans wouldn't have bitched much.

Personally speaking i was always more inclined to read the action scenes of Spider-Man fighting villains that stories just focusing in the soap opera aspect of the stories.
When the professional comic book creators said that did they twirled a evil mustache at the same time?
Anyways i guess that when OMD happened was just a way to change the Staus Quo of the Spider-Man stories just as hapened way back when Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 was published way back.
No need to villainize comic book creators because one personaly does not agree with the changes done in the stories.
When Amazing Spider-Man Annual#21 was published i did not thought that Marvel said "**** this stupid fan base,we´re doing this" while twirling a evil mustache and giving the classic evil "muahaha" laughter in a old castle in a rainy night with thunders.lol.
I did not liked that Peter and Mary Jane married in the stories but no reason to make up scenarios in creative decisions to keep a comic book interesting by having that same comic book undergone significant changes to keep stories exciting and all that jazz.
Marvel comics are this way,they change and are unpredictable thus why i keep Reading them all these years.
If not i as a reader would still read stories of Peter Parker meeting Betty Brant when he tried to sell Spider-Man pics to John Jonah Jameson and worrying about high school and Aunt May being worried about Peter Parker arriving late at home.

[Lukmendes]

Personally speaking i was always more inclined to read the action scenes of Spider-Man fighting villains that stories just focusing in the soap opera aspect of the stories.
When the professional comic book creators said that did they twirled a evil mustache at the same time?
Anyways i guess that when OMD happened was just a way to change the Staus Quo of the Spider-Man stories just as hapened way back when Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 was published way back.
No need to villainize comic book creators because one personaly does not agree with the changes done in the stories.
When Amazing Spider-Man Annual#21 was published i did not thought that Marvel said "**** this stupid fan base,we´re doing this" while twirling a evil mustache and giving the classic evil "muahaha" laughter in a old castle in a rainy night with thunders.lol.
I did not liked that Peter and Mary Jane married in the stories but no reason to make up scenarios in creative decisions to keep a comic book interesting by having that same comic book undergone significant changes to keep stories exciting and all that jazz.
Marvel comics are this way,they change and are unpredictable thus why i keep Reading them all these years.
If not i as a reader would still read stories of Peter Parker meeting Betty Brant when he tried to sell Spider-Man pics to John Jonah Jameson and worrying about high school and Aunt May being worried about Peter Parker arriving late at home.

Again, they tried to get rid of the marriage before but brought it back because fans complained, OMD is the one case which is "permanent", not to mention the way they did it disrespects both Peter's and MJ's characters and it pissed off most fans, and they kept the post OMD **** despite complaints, so yeah, seems like they were being pretty disrespectful, it's why I wrote that, on the other hand, the marriage itself happening was done in a respectful way to the characters, because if they just forced both of them in a relationship and just married them without chemistry and kept it going for so long, then I would write the same ****.

[Alan2099]

Again, they tried to get rid of the marriage before but brought it back because fans complained, OMD is the one case which is "permanent", not to mention the way they did it disrespects both Peter's and MJ's characters and it pissed off most fans, and they kept the post OMD **** despite complaints, so yeah, seems like they were being pretty disrespectful, it's why I wrote that, on the other hand, the marriage itself happening was done in a respectful way to the characters, because if they just forced both of them in a relationship and just married them without chemistry and kept it going for so long, then I would write the same ****.

It seems to me that the difference between being respectful and not respectful to you boils down to whether you personally liked it or not.

[Lukmendes]

It seems to me that the difference between being respectful and not respectful to you boils down to whether you personally liked it or not.

Hardly. In such case I wouldn't find the marriage very respectful since the marriage itself is pretty meh and most of Annual 21 is boring filler.

[comicscollector]

Again, they tried to get rid of the marriage before but brought it back because fans complained, OMD is the one case which is "permanent", not to mention the way they did it disrespects both Peter's and MJ's characters and it pissed off most fans, and they kept the post OMD **** despite complaints, so yeah, seems like they were being pretty disrespectful, it's why I wrote that, on the other hand, the marriage itself happening was done in a respectful way to the characters, because if they just forced both of them in a relationship and just married them without chemistry and kept it going for so long, then I would write the same ****.

We have to agree to disagree in several things.
Modern comic book characters breaking up is not a disrespect.
Spider-Man is not a golden age super hero writen with just having one romantic interest as Super-Man and Lois Lane.
Spider-Man stories in what concerns the soap opera aspect have been evolving and changing from time to time,sure Peter and Mary Jane marriage lasted 20 years in the stories but that does not mean that those characters should be married forever in the stories and neither that them breaking up in the stories as a disrespect by comic book creators.
And why labell post OMD Spider-Man stories as ****,Amazing Spider-Man kept being a best seller even when it was published three times a month.
Plus to me after Bran New Day there were plenty of great and cool Spider-Man stories sure there were some stories that were not the best,but there is no such thing as a perfect comic book.
Show me another comic book that had the sales of Spider-Manbeing published three times a month with the sales ASM had,dont mind if i sit while waiting for such a exemple.
And i was Reading current Spider-Man stories before Amazing Spider-Man Annual#21,at least the comics i could get back then with my allowance but more or less i was Reading most of the curent stories of Spidey from the 80s back then and the marriage of Peter and Mary Jane looked forced to me even back then.
I remember that a few stories before MJ declined marrying Peter and a few issues later they were married.
So yeah just as some people did not like the change to the stories post OMD i did not liked the changes done to the stories way back when Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 was published.Even so i don´t think is fair to be much judgemental about changes done in the Status Quo because those very same changes that keep me Reading the stories every month.