Discussion with Tom Brevoort on Spider-Man marriage

[Mister Mets]

I'm looking at the twitter comments. Here's a bunch copied and pasted.

Spidey is a poor choice to represent youth. He's been at it for 13 years. Embrace that and let the poor guy act his age. It's embarrasing.

Characters like Ms. Marvel and Miles Morales are great coming of age characters. But that ship has sailed for Peter decades ago.

Anonymous said: MrB, let me incite the Spider-Man debate further (I can't resist). You say that... http://tmblr.co/ZRV4ks1nH7SzY

@TomBrevoort Spidey didn't grow up with me. I was 9 years old when I read MJ announce her pregnancy. He was already an adult!

@TomBrevoort Kids don't give a crap if he represents youth. They like him cuz he looks cool and has neat powers.

@TomBrevoort But for you to say fans who want new fans to experience him as an adult like they did "selfish" shows how out of touch you are

@TomBrevoort Other media depicts him young because Marvle constantly promote that informing them to do so. Raimi was headed toward marriage

@TomBrevoort OMD was more selfish on editorials part than any fan who read and loved the character for the decades he was married

@TomBrevoort Cuz of guys like you, Spidey will never have the key milestones of marriage and his life with MJ which was so good and iconic

@TomBrevoort in the comcis but not yet experienced on tv or movies. Oh how I wish I could see that one day.

@Vortex8500 I'm sorry, but he was not. He never would have done that--would have killed the franchise right there.

@TomBrevoort LOL, just like it killed the comics when they got married right? Oh wait, no, it didn't.

@Vortex8500 Just like killing Gwen Stacy in Amazing Spidey 2 killed the franchise. That's not what the audience as a whole wants.

@TomBrevoort Gwen's death didn't kill the franchise. There were more problems than that. And Gwen was too likeable to kill off unlike comics

@Vortex8500 Sorry, but you're wrong here, too. If Gwen had lived, they'd be doing ASM 3 and Marvel wouldn't be doing the next film.

@TomBrevoort If they did Gwen right, they could have killed her off. They made her Spidey's confident. Gwen wasn't like that in the comics

@Vortex8500 No, it just crippled them for a number of years. You know how many times that marriage was almost undone?

@TomBrevoort Because of you guys trying to think you had to remove it when you didnt

@Vortex8500 What do you think was behind the Clone Saga and the mess of the Spidey 90s?

@TomBrevoort i know it was. But the only problem was the constant attempts to remove it. Not the marriage itself.

@Vortex8500 Look, it's fine to feel as you do. You're one reader, and entitled to your opinion. But we need to consider all readers...

@TomBrevoort Yes, and you've refused to do so from the beginning. Polls online have shown vast numbers in favor of the marriage

There's more posts, but I'm still not seeing Brevoort explicitly say Marvel isn't undoing One More Day, even though Brevoort clearly thinks it was worthwhile.

[oldschool]

I'm looking at the twitter comments.































There's more posts, but I'm still not seeing Brevoort explicitly say Marvel isn't undoing One More Day, even though Brevoort clearly thinks it was worthwhile.

Nor am I. Moreover, I would be surprised if Brevoort/Marvel would tip their hand now with 4 more issues of RYV to go and the layout for Spidey post-SW very much up in the air.

[Vanguard-01]

I completely understand and whole heartedly agree with your right as a consumer to not purchase-- or even pay attention to-- a product that doesn't interest or appeal to you. That's totally fair and valid.

But if you "haven't touched a comic with 'Spider' in the title for 8 years", I will call you on labeling it "crap" when you have no first hand knowledge of hundreds of issues of that product. Ignoring something is fine-- but with that comes a firsthand ignorance of its merits for good-or-ill. You can't completely avert your gaze at something and objectively criticize it at the same time. One goes hand in hand with the other. That's common sense.

Comicvine and this forum are my friends. Thanks to the power of the Almighty Internet, I'm able to maintain a general knowledge of what's going on in Spider books without actually having to shell out my hard-earned money to buy them.

Plus? The Spider-marriage for me is a non-negotiable part of why I loved Spider-Man in the first place. I grew up completely infatuated with Peter and MJ as a couple. Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man without MJ. Thus? Any Spider book that does not include this vital component is "crap." Full-stop.

[Mister Mets]

The rest of the posts.

@Vortex8500 That's virtually everybody who's worked on the character since 1987. A whole lot of people to be wrong.

@TomBrevoort Group think. You were all so infatuated with how it used to be, you didn't realize fans actually got invested in the marraige

@TomBrevoort not everyone online likes the marriage. if you ask a website if they want it back and the majority says yes out of 5000

@Vortex8500 Polls have shown that readers who like the marriage like the marriage. Meaningless, a skewed sample.

@TomBrevoort thats a big sampling. and thats what happened on cbr. and i didnt even get chance to vote on that cuz i wasn't following

@Vortex8500 Fan and online polls of this sort are always deceptive, because the sample size is too small. Get me 300,000 responders and

@Vortex8500 5000 readers is nothing, a drop in the bucket. I can find 5000 readers who'll say they prefer Spidey with a horse head.

@Vortex8500 ...we'll talk.

@Vortex8500 You grow up with the version you first encounter, I get that.

@TomBrevoort so that means you know future generations should be just fine iwth a married spidey... if thats what they encounter first

@Vortex8500 Yes, they'll just be smaller, and eventually dwindle away to nothing. Again: Batman fights aliens.

@TomBrevoort BTW, Batman fighting aliens is ridiculous and in no way comparable to a hero with an interesting marriage..horrible arguement.

@TomBrevoort You threw it away. Now Peter gets to date varouis women. Readers know they won't go anywhere... whats the point

@TomBrevoort just what i suspected. where would MJ be without the marriage? Here and Peter became the most iconic couple in Marvel comics.

@Vortex8500 And now it is time for sleep.

@TomBrevoort thanks for your time. I appreciate you talking with me on this.

[oldschool]

Comicvine and this forum are my friends. Thanks to the power of the Almighty Internet, I'm able to maintain a general knowledge of what's going on in Spider books without actually having to shell out my hard-earned money to buy them.

Plus? The Spider-marriage for me is a non-negotiable part of why I loved Spider-Man in the first place. I grew up completely infatuated with Peter and MJ as a couple. Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man without MJ. Thus? Any Spider book that does not include this vital component is "crap." Full-stop.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with the notion that reading summations and/or talking to friends equals reading a story for yourself and forming your own opinion. EX: if someone told me Bucky Barnes was being brought back to life as the Winter Soldier after 50 years, I would have scoffed at the idea. Glad I read those issues for myself as they are among my favorite comics of the past 15 years.

If you want to make the marriage a "non-negotiable" factor in not buying a comic, go ahead----I won't say "you're missing some great stories". But I will say that googling stories on the internet and chatting with friends is not akin to reading a story on your own when it comes to forming an opinion. Not even close.

[Vanguard-01]

Sorry, but I cannot agree with the notion that reading summations and/or talking to friends equals reading a story for yourself and forming your own opinion. EX: if someone told me Bucky Barnes was being brought back to life as the Winter Soldier after 50 years, I would have scoffed at the idea. Glad I read those issues for myself as they are among my favorite comics of the past 15 years.

If you want to make the marriage a "non-negotiable" factor in not buying a comic, go ahead----I won't say "you're missing some great stories". But I will say that googling stories on the internet and chatting with friends is not akin to reading a story on your own when it comes to forming an opinion. Not even close.

They give a general understanding of what the story entails. Enough for me to know "Yeah, I'm not missing anything by not reading this."

All I had to read was "Doctor Octopus kills Spider-Man, steals his body, and takes over his life" in order to know that I wouldn't be reading "Superior." There is no way a story like that will EVER appeal to me. That was over two years of stories that I had no reason at all to read. I don't want to read about Dr. Octopus pretending to be Spider-Man. I want to read about Spider-Man.

And for the rest? So, according to you, the only way I can justify my continued refusal to read Spider-Man is.........if I read the books? I have to spend my money and buy these books that I don't want in order to know that I don't want them?

Yeah, no thanks.

[oldschool]

They give a general understanding of what the story entails. Enough for me to know "Yeah, I'm not missing anything by not reading this."

All I had to read was "Doctor Octopus kills Spider-Man, steals his body, and takes over his life" in order to know that I wouldn't be reading "Superior." There is no way a story like that will EVER appeal to me. That was over two years of stories that I had no reason at all to read. I don't want to read about Dr. Octopus pretending to be Spider-Man. I want to read about Spider-Man.

And for the rest? So, according to you, the only way I can justify my continued refusal to read Spider-Man is.........if I read the books? I have to spend my money and buy these books that I don't want in order to know that I don't want them?

Yeah, no thanks.

Like I said in my original post, if I used your method of determining a story's worth by other people's summations, I would never have picked up "The Winter Soldier" arc or others. I am not telling you to spend $ or not spend $, simply stating that I don't believe online summations are ever a substitute for experiencing a story for yourself, whether it be a comic book, novel, TV series or a movie.

[boots]

Comicvine and this forum are my friends. Thanks to the power of the Almighty Internet, I'm able to maintain a general knowledge of what's going on in Spider books without actually having to shell out my hard-earned money to buy them.

Plus? The Spider-marriage for me is a non-negotiable part of why I loved Spider-Man in the first place. I grew up completely infatuated with Peter and MJ as a couple. Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man without MJ. Thus? Any Spider book that does not include this vital component is "crap." Full-stop.

this would naturally include all pre mj work too. stan lee and that crap he wrote.

[boots]

And for the rest? So, according to you, the only way I can justify my continued refusal to read Spider-Man is.........if I read the books? I have to spend my money and buy these books that I don't want in order to know that I don't want them?

Yeah, no thanks.

won't spend money on the books, but will devote life force to posting on the boards.

[Nesh]

this would naturally include all pre mj work too. stan lee and that crap he wrote.

You beat me to it. Not to mention the near decade of issues after MJ debuted that she and Peter weren't a couple, since the loss of a Peter/MJ relationship is what turned them off, those must suck too.

[Vanguard-01]

Like I said in my original post, if I used your method of determining a story's worth by other people's summations, I would never have picked up "The Winter Soldier" arc or others. I am not telling you to spend $ or not spend $, simply stating that I don't believe online summations are ever a substitute for experiencing a story for yourself, whether it be a comic book, novel, TV series or a movie.

Marvel uses solicits, previews, and interviews with writers in order to market their books. They want you to read those solicits, previews, and interviews and say "Yeah! That sounds like a great story! I'll totally spend my money on that!" Sure, sometimes the story doesn't live up to the hype, and some fans regret the decision and walk away from the book. But they still have to see something worthwhile in the story in order to spend the money in the first place.

Me? I read the solicits. I read the previews. I read the interviews. I read what other people are saying about the story. If I see nothing of value? I don't spend money. Add the destruction of the marriage to the equation, and I see no reason to pay any mind to Spider books for a very long time.

this would naturally include all pre mj work too. stan lee and that crap he wrote.

I didn't read that era of Spider-Man. That wasn't what was available when I was a kid. Had I grown up during that era? I may have different feelings about the marriage.

I won't comment about an era about which I know practically nothing.

won't spend money on the books, but will devote life force to posting on the boards.

This is the most time I've spent posting on this forum in literally years. Not exactly "devoting my life."

For the most part, I don't post on this forum at all. I'm not reading the books, so I don't generally have much to talk about. This discussion is about the marriage, on which I do have an opinion that I have shared.

Now that I have shared my opinion? I'm done. Keep a sharp lookout for my name on this forum. You won't see me very often at all.

[Aruran.]

Marvel uses solicits, previews, and interviews with writers in order to market their books. They want you to read those solicits, previews, and interviews and say "Yeah! That sounds like a great story! I'll totally spend my money on that!" Sure, sometimes the story doesn't live up to the hype, and some fans regret the decision and walk away from the book. But they still have to see something worthwhile in the story in order to spend the money in the first place.

Me? I read the solicits. I read the previews. I read the interviews. I read what other people are saying about the story. If I see nothing of value? I don't spend money. Add the destruction of the marriage to the equation, and I see no reason to pay any mind to Spider books for a very long time.

That seems to be the main reason why you won't read it, everything else you listed would ruin a story if you were interested in reading it.

[boots]

You beat me to it. Not to mention the near decade of issues after MJ debuted that she and Peter weren't a couple, since the loss of a Peter/MJ relationship is what turned them off, those must suck too.

non negotiable! if he ain't in love with a red head, he's spider-crap. or crapper-man. i haven't decided which yet.

[boots]

This is the most time I've spent posting on this forum in literally years. Not exactly "devoting my life."

For the most part, I don't post on this forum at all. I'm not reading the books, so I don't generally have much to talk about. This discussion is about the marriage, on which I do have an opinion that I have shared.

Now that I have shared my opinion? I'm done. Keep a sharp lookout for my name on this forum. You won't see me very often at all.

that was half an hour you could have lovingly spent rereading "the wedding!".

[oldschool]

that was half an hour you could have lovingly spent rereading "the wedding!".

Let's not go further down this road; he expressed an opinion---no need to provoke.