Discussion with Tom Brevoort on Spider-Man marriage

[Majin_O.A.W.]

I had an interesting discussion with Tom Brevoort on Twitter tonight. Basically guys, OMD isn't getting undone, Peter and MJ are never getting married again. Marvel aint intersted.

Tom admitted that he understood I was invested in the marriage because thats how I grew up reading the character, so I replied that it means he knows a married Spidey could work for future generations because thats how they could also encounter the character, and he responed yes, but the future numbers who are still invested in it will dwindle to nothing. Ouch, cruel!

He is dead set on Spidey being youthful and is dead set on the marriage being something that "crippled" the book. Something that Marvel is unified on. So forget it, move on, it ain't happening. He even compared the marriage repeatedly as a bad idea, on the level of Batman fighting aliens. It's crazy how he could think that. Especially after what JMS did for it.

Also, he actually even said he thought marrying Spidey in a movie would kill the franchise, LOL! Seriously! It's a sad day but I can finally forget about my dream of seeing it happen in the movies. If Marvel is behind them and they are informing studios on how to go about things, we can expect them avoid marriage like the plague. Marvel obviously hated it with a passion and never want the world to know about it. So sad to see such a huge legacy so near and dear to the hearts of Spidey fans for 2 decades thrown away like trash.

Goodnight guys. Over and out.

I'm torn by the marriage being lost too - since OMD. But the time to hold onto such foolishness is over. Hang on to Renew Your Vows... that's the bone Marvel is throwing us at this current point in time.

[Thor8607]

I'm torn by the marriage being lost too - since OMD. But the time to hold onto such foolishness is over. Hang on to Renew Your Vows... that's the bone Marvel is throwing us at this current point in time.

But..what's the point in reading that now ? Renew your vows won't last forever and as soon as that and secret wars are over it will be back to the same old " we have to keep MJ and Peter apart " thing. They are never going to let us see a marriage between Peter and MJ again, and reading the book will only serve to remind us of what could have been, instead of what should have been. Spiderman seems more than ever to be a lost cause for me.

[Mister Mets]

But..what's the point in reading that now ? Renew your vows won't last forever and as soon as that and secret wars are over it will be back to the same old " we have to keep MJ and Peter apart " thing. They are never going to let us see a marriage between Peter and MJ again, and reading the book will only serve to remind us of what could have been, instead of what should have been. Spiderman seems more than ever to be a lost cause for me.

What's the point to reading anything? You might enjoy it. That's the point.

[Yvonmukluk]

For starters: It's "Spider-Man", with a hyphen.

And call me crazy, but I always thought the "Golden Age of Spider-Man" were the Lee/Ditko & Lee/Romita years. But what do I know? ;-)

Well it may be the golden age, but to be frank the Spider-Titles were at their strongest in the years right before the road to OMD where Quesada basically death-marched the character into a faustian pact (and I don't give a damn how they try and pass it off as a good or noble thing, he made a deal with the devil. Which Marvel tried to weasel out of with OMIT-too bad, Peter still made a deal with Satan). Turns out that not actively trying to screw over the marriage editorially and letting the writer do his job results in really good stories, who knew? But, instead, the character was rolled back to Quesada's ideal of 'golden age', outright erasing JMS' entire run on the book. And while BND did have some good ideas, bringing in new villains & a new supporting cast, quite frankly, despite all the talents of the 'brain trust'-none of the replacement love interests that were cooked up had the same charisma as Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane Watson. Not to mention, the rather pointless resurrection of Harry Osborn (undercutting one of the best Spidey stories* sure was worth...bringing him back for a few stories and then shoving him into limbo). While Aunt May went from being more compelling than she'd been in decades (no small feat, after being rather pointedly resurrected as the 60s era doddering fool during the Byrne/Mackie run with that stupid 'genetically modified actress' crap**) as another confidant, to being put right back to being ignorant of Peter's double life. Oh, and being involved in jokes about old people sex, getting married to a guy who's only real character trait I remember is being related to a much more interesting character and being rich, and moving out to Boston half the time and not really playing much of a role in Peter's life any more (except to drop a job at horizon into Peter's lap and then the capital for Otto to set up Parker industries). Man, that sure was worth it!

Also didn't Breevoort once out-and-out state that Peter in BND was deliberately written as more immature and incompetent compared to his prior incarnations? Because that's what we all remembered from the 'golden age'-how Peter was a loser. Not an everyman struggling with the weight of the world, no, a loser. That or Marvel's decided that the 'everyman' is automatically a loser. It's rather telling that some of the most popular recent Spider-Man stories had Peter thrown out and another character come in and actually, you know, progress***. Of course, then Otto handed back Peter's life and he's suddenly got a business and a doctorate he didn't earn. I mean, it's all well and good for people to complain that Peter & MJ's marriage was rushed, but at least it was something they did themselves, rather than proxy characters. Not to mention marrying a long-term love interest (who, let's not forget, he proposed to once before), is closer to the core of Spider-Man's character than 'Peter gets job in superscience lab so he builds Tony-Stark style suits & gadgets' or 'antagonist takes over his body and becomes CEO of his own company, then Peter is thrown in at the deep end'.

It's all well and good to idealise the 'golden age', but honestly I'm not impressed with the attempt to forcibly snap back to that-especially since frankly most of the good elements of post-OMD would have worked just fine with a married Spider-Man. I'll be honest, your writing of Peter & MJ in Spider-Island and RYV has been miles ahead of any of the interactions between Peter & Carlie or Peter & Silk. But JMS' run, barring some hiccups/editorial mandates is probably the strongest that character's been written in the last 10-15 years, because he felt like he was going somewhere and had progressed since he started out, the way it seemed like he was going somewhere back in the 'golden age'.

*Spectacular #200, that is, not 'The Wedding'. As much as I love that story, I wouldn't put it as one of the all-time greats.
**Hmm...it seems a bunch of the stories that involve regressing the characters wind up being reviled as hackneyed and involving ridiculous contrivances. I wonder why.
***Although the fact that nobody noticed the swap or that the shift in Peter's character was suspicious until the plot said they could was rather grating.

[Darthfury78]

While I'm sad that the marriage isn't returning, isn't there anyway for Marvel to get rid of the Mephistopheles problem and still lose the marriage ?

Reboot to a new universe....

[squirecam]

What's the point to reading anything? You might enjoy it. That's the point.

If you can ignore the elephant in the room that no one will ever deal with...fine. Some readers cant. It ruins the story. When there is an issue in my life, I deal with it. Why read about someone who will never deal with it?

[deadboy80]

I always liked the idea of a superhero, any of them whith a child. Or children. ts a great dynamic, it adds depth to this character. Hey what are ya gonna do though?

[Scott Taylor]

Children do add another layer of responsibility, though, that isn't there with just marriage. Marriage without children isn't that much different than just being in any relationship. The main difference is personal comfort level. With children the difference is that they depend on you totally. A wife/husband does not do that.

[Vortex85]

Found this on twitter. Pretty badass. I will continue to get this despite my disappointment with Brevoort.

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[Ursalink]

Guys, maybe you simply shouldn't believe everything they tell you. This is like when, after Ultimate Peter Parker's death, they said he would never come back. And what happened not too long ago?, somehow, Ultimate Peter Parker was back from the grave. Or after they made the stupid "Superior Spider-Junk", they said Peter Parker was lost forever. And what happened at the end?, Ock was kicked off Peter's body and the one true Spider-Man returned. They are playing with us!!!

They said that elements of "Renew Your Vows" will survive "Secret Wars", which is clearly truth because it's obvious that each domain of Battleworld will forge a part of the "All-New, All-Different Marvel". And which elements should we suppose they will survive? Well, clearly the main characters: the Parker family (Peter, MJ and Annie) and the Regent (the new villain). Everything else in this "reality" is redundant. And seriously, after seeing the Parkers in action in the first issue against Classic Venom, are you really going to accept this scenario with the Spider-Marriage will be just deleted? I don't think so!! Even less after seeing the cover of Issue #5 in September's solicitations.

Look, let's be real. Peter Parker will be forever the one and true Spider-Man, without a doubt. But no matter how fictitious would be his history, you can't keep his character as "the boy who never grew-up". We are talking about a character with more than 50 years of history, people. If you want a young Spider-Man, we already have Miles Morales to replace Peter in that role, as we already know he will survive in the new Marvel Universe. If the are going to keep Steve Rogers as an old man (which, by the way, I don't like it), then why they can't age Peter Parker too and allow him to be married? That's stupid!!

[dragonmp93]

Guys, maybe you simply shouldn't believe everything they tell you. This is like when, after Ultimate Peter Parker's death, they said he would never come back. And what happened not too long ago?, somehow, Ultimate Peter Parker was back from the grave. Or after they made the stupid "Superior Spider-Junk", they said Peter Parker was lost forever. And what happened at the end?, Ock was kicked off Peter's body and the one true Spider-Man returned. They are playing with us!!!

They said that elements of "Renew Your Vows" will survive "Secret Wars", which is clearly truth because it's obvious that each domain of Battleworld will forge a part of the "All-New, All-Different Marvel". And which elements should we suppose they will survive? Well, clearly the main characters: the Parker family (Peter, MJ and Annie) and the Regent (the new villain). Everything else in this "reality" is redundant. And seriously, after seeing the Parkers in action in the first issue against Classic Venom, are you really going to accept this scenario with the Spider-Marriage will be just deleted? I don't think so!! Even less after seeing the cover of Issue #5 in September's solicitations.

Look, let's be real. Peter Parker will be forever the one and true Spider-Man, without a doubt. But no matter how fictitious would be his history, you can't keep his character as "the boy who never grew-up". We are talking about a character with more than 50 years of history, people. If you want a young Spider-Man, we already have Miles Morales to replace Peter in that role, as we already know he will survive in the new Marvel Universe. If the are going to keep Steve Rogers as an old man (which, by the way, I don't like it), then why they can't age Peter Parker too and allow him to be married? That's stupid!!

Well, he also has said that there is big plans for the FF, and that the X-men are going to be around after Secret Wars..........................

[boots]

I always liked the idea of a superhero, any of them whith a child. Or children. ts a great dynamic, it adds depth to this character. Hey what are ya gonna do though?

out of curiosity, which super heroes are these? i haven’t been reading comics for over 10 years but almost all the super hero kids i can think of end up ageing and getting in fist fights with their parents (the ff, the x-men, hulk).

[dragonmp93]

out of curiosity, which super heroes are these? i haven’t been reading comics for over 10 years but almost all the super hero kids i can think of end up ageing and getting in fist fights with their parents (the ff, the x-men, hulk).

Well, the Summers kids are actually in good terms with each other and with their parents; well, not so much with Cable's biological mother.

[ishikabe]

I didn't really expect Renew Your Vows to bring back the marriage, because I have no faith in Marvel's willingness to give me anything that I want, comics-wise.

I haven't touched a comic with "Spider" in the title for seven or eight years. I won't until the marriage is back and Peter even vaguely resembles the character with which I grew up again.

So, this isn't "Goodbye" for me. It's just more of the same. Marvel continues to show me they don't want my money, and I'm only too happy to go on not giving it to them.

I feel your pain Thor8607. Let's just keep on ignoring this crap until someone in Marvel comes along with an interest in giving us what we want.

I also haven't read Spider-Man for the most part since BND/the marriage. I buy comics all the time, and Marvel isn't getting that extra money every month. Some people don't like me for this, but I stick by my choice. Marvel probably doesn't need me to buy Spider-Man, since they are now under a bigger business. I am somewhat excited to see what happens after Secret Wars 3. I know to give new titles at least 5 issue before making any real judgements. *Maybe* I will start buying some other Spider-person title after this summer's big event.

If you can ignore the elephant in the room that no one will ever deal with...fine. Some readers cant. It ruins the story. When there is an issue in my life, I deal with it. Why read about someone who will never deal with it?

It's like Spider-Man is in the Twilight Zone. I hope Marvel wakes him up from his coma because he's also having horrible nightmares: losing your kid, then your wife, and suddenly your own frienemy junkie pops back into your life. It's a brand new day for Spider-Man. Ugh no.

[boots]

Well, the Summers kids are actually in good terms with each other and with their parents; well, not so much with Cable's biological mother.

do we include stryfe in that?

it’s been a while since i read the books, so i’m guessing cable gave cyclops a nice big hug. rachel was always teetering with phoenix nuttiness though, right?

my bigger point (besides the fisticuffs) is that most writers seem at a loss as to how to tell an interesting story with the kids and tend to do silly things like rapidly age them or send them to the future or bring them back from the future or…anything other than changing diapers.