Discussion with Tom Brevoort on Spider-Man marriage

[Ursalink]

Well, he also has said that there is big plans for the FF, and that the X-men are going to be around after Secret Wars..........................

That is clearly not true, at least, partially. I mean, Marvel can't be Marvel without the Fantastic Four or the X-Men; but it's obvious that they are no longer going to be as we knew them. It's obvious that there will be a group of mutants to form a new X-Men, but the Fantastic Four seems to be at the edge of dissolving. They always were Marvel's first family; but it seems now each member is going to take his own way. I mean, check the revealed spoilers:
+ Ben Grimm, The Thing, will join the Guardians of the Galaxy; apparently replacing Groot.
+ Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, joins the Inhumans and starts a relationship with Medusa.
+ It looks like Sue Richards (the Invisible Woman) will join SHIELD as a secret agent.

There's no news about Reed Richards, but I really hope his marriage with Sue won't be erased; and neither his children, Franklin and Valeria. I really don't like these news about the Fantastic Four. Not only because this means that Marvel's first family would probably be dissolved partly; but also because this means someone else will have to take their place. They have tried it over and over for years, but no one can take the roles of the Fantastic Four as the original members.

[dragonmp93]

do we include stryfe in that?

it’s been a while since i read the books, so i’m guessing cable gave cyclops a nice big hug. rachel was always teetering with phoenix nuttiness though, right?

my bigger point (besides the fisticuffs) is that most writers seem at a loss as to how to tell an interesting story with the kids and tend to do silly things like rapidly age them or send them to the future or bring them back from the future or…anything other than changing diapers.

Well, i dont know if he counts for this, Stryfe is a clone of Cable that was raised by Apocalypse.

Anyways, at least in the X-men's case, it's apparently against the laws of the nature that the X-men have the slightest resemblance to having a normal life.

[boots]

Well, i dont know if he counts for this, Stryfe is a clone of Cable that was raised by Apocalypse.

Anyways, at least in the X-men's case, it's apparently against the laws of the nature that the X-men have the slightest resemblance to having a normal life.

ouch. bit harsh on the clone. it’s funny how they’re regarded as abominations when really, they’re just twins.

[dragonmp93]

ouch. bit harsh on the clone. it’s funny how they’re regarded as abominations when really, they’re just twins.

Well, unlike X-23, Strife is really an abomination.

[boots]

Well, unlike X-23, Strife is really an abomination.

i heard he attempted to go good?

[jimishim12]

Should anyone be surprised, the adventures of Peter Parker must be the greatest aspects that Marvel must showcase over everything else. Spider-Man's character is a legacy concept, his actual purpose is to invoke timelessness in his character and actions, he's also a self martyred man with a plucky kid heart making him fundamentally youthful and simplistic. Really, being married is and always shall be too be a bridge for Peter to cross because it means Peter would have to change and most likely stop being Spidey or even a protagonist all together. Unless they want Peter to go the Goku route and have him have epic adventures and fights without seeing his wife and children almost every day, then I don't see how it would work. I'll elaborate on Peter changing more, Peter would have to change his real life ways and his overall tied to the streets and being a underdog concept extremely so, if he kept being Spider-Man because it would be unrealistic to not have Peter balance his family life with wife and child to his heroic life and change his entire concept of being more than he is, meaning it would make Peter generic and badly written. Also it's badly written if he had a married life and still fought in his conventional ways of webslinging, facing the villain and barely winning, getting back home and having to pick up kids from school and IMO it would get boring unless Spider-Man power grinds up from his original abilities and is a meta human top tier like thor or captain marvel but still boring.

And I never saw Peter staying in one default characterization considering his character's build up, he's like Batman, he alternates and changes through various stories and has a infinite scope of stories and situations he can end up in. As long he stays the "Responsible and Self Sacrificing" concept people know and love him for. MJ is so overrated to, what can she do, Aunt May can do, only not pork her. There have been far more pivitol female characters that's helped Peter more than MJ ever has, it's been so long since I can honestly say Gwen is most likely the greatest female supporting character to Peter since May Parker, because she helped make Spider-Man a true deconstruction of always saving the damsel in distress and made Peter as pivitol to superhero clichés more than any Marvel hero or superhero after him. Peter has so much to give, his input value is boundless, he just doesn't belong to the people he loves but the whole marvel u.

[Thor8607]

Should anyone be surprised, the adventures of Peter Parker must be the greatest aspects that Marvel must showcase over everything else. Spider-Man's character is a legacy concept, his actual purpose is to invoke timelessness in his character and actions, he's also a self martyred man with a plucky kid heart making him fundamentally youthful and simplistic. Really, being married is and always shall be too be a bridge for Peter to cross because it means Peter would have to change and most likely stop being Spidey or even a protagonist all together. Unless they want Peter to go the Goku route and have him have epic adventures and fights without seeing his wife and children almost every day, then I don't see how it would work. I'll elaborate on Peter changing more, Peter would have to change his real life ways and his overall tied to the streets and being a underdog concept extremely so, if he kept being Spider-Man because it would be unrealistic to not have Peter balance his family life with wife and child to his heroic life and change his entire concept of being more than he is, meaning it would make Peter generic and badly written. Also it's badly written if he had a married life and still fought in his conventional ways of webslinging, facing the villain and barely winning, getting back home and having to pick up kids from school and IMO it would get boring unless Spider-Man power grinds up from his original abilities and is a meta human top tier like thor or captain marvel but still boring.

And I never saw Peter staying in one default characterization considering his character's build up, he's like Batman, he alternates and changes through various stories and has a infinite scope of stories and situations he can end up in. As long he stays the "Responsible and Self Sacrificing" concept people know and love him for. MJ is so overrated to, what can she do, Aunt May can do, only not pork her. There have been far more pivitol female characters that's helped Peter more than MJ ever has, it's been so long since I can honestly say Gwen is most likely the greatest female supporting character to Peter since May Parker, because she helped make Spider-Man a true deconstruction of always saving the damsel in distress and made Peter as pivitol to superhero clichés more than any Marvel hero or superhero after him. Peter has so much to give, his input value is boundless, he just doesn't belong to the people he loves but the whole marvel u.

Well I don't see what you are mad about, you got what you wanted. A Peter Parker that is more batman than spiderman, who is lonely, childless, and can never get the girl. You got what you wanted, and I ( and others like me ) lost the hero I used to admire. You won but remember this, marvel turned on us and destroyed our hero when they decided they no longer needed us, someday marvel will do the same to you when they feel they don't need you anymore too. When that happens just remember I told you so.

[DCordo74]

Should anyone be surprised, the adventures of Peter Parker must be the greatest aspects that Marvel must showcase over everything else. Spider-Man's character is a legacy concept, his actual purpose is to invoke timelessness in his character and actions, he's also a self martyred man with a plucky kid heart making him fundamentally youthful and simplistic. Really, being married is and always shall be too be a bridge for Peter to cross because it means Peter would have to change and most likely stop being Spidey or even a protagonist all together. Unless they want Peter to go the Goku route and have him have epic adventures and fights without seeing his wife and children almost every day, then I don't see how it would work. I'll elaborate on Peter changing more, Peter would have to change his real life ways and his overall tied to the streets and being a underdog concept extremely so, if he kept being Spider-Man because it would be unrealistic to not have Peter balance his family life with wife and child to his heroic life and change his entire concept of being more than he is, meaning it would make Peter generic and badly written. Also it's badly written if he had a married life and still fought in his conventional ways of webslinging, facing the villain and barely winning, getting back home and having to pick up kids from school and IMO it would get boring unless Spider-Man power grinds up from his original abilities and is a meta human top tier like thor or captain marvel but still boring.

And I never saw Peter staying in one default characterization considering his character's build up, he's like Batman, he alternates and changes through various stories and has a infinite scope of stories and situations he can end up in. As long he stays the "Responsible and Self Sacrificing" concept people know and love him for. MJ is so overrated to, what can she do, Aunt May can do, only not pork her. There have been far more pivitol female characters that's helped Peter more than MJ ever has, it's been so long since I can honestly say Gwen is most likely the greatest female supporting character to Peter since May Parker, because she helped make Spider-Man a true deconstruction of always saving the damsel in distress and made Peter as pivitol to superhero clichés more than any Marvel hero or superhero after him. Peter has so much to give, his input value is boundless, he just doesn't belong to the people he loves but the whole marvel u.

Um...

spider-man-reign004-0z6pu0.jpg

Spider-MJ.jpg

SensationalAnnual1_02.jpg

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you...I could bring up more examples but that's all the post would allow. OK anyway...commencing with the disagreements. First, Mary Jane is not overrated, she's earned her keep. Aunt May didn't become Peter's confidante until JMS. Otherwise before that, that's what MJ did...besides having Peter "pork her" as you so kindly put it . Aunt May was just someone Peter has looked out and cared for since he was like fifteen. Second, Gwen is only iconic because she died. That's all she contributed. She was his first girlfriend who died. Nothing else. How does that make her engaging or great? What's her iconic line? What's their iconic kiss? What made their relationship great? Her iconic outfit is the one she died in. Her first appearance showed her mad at Peter for not giving her enough attention. She tried to manipulate him emotionally. Peter lied to her over and over and over and over and over again. She hated Spider-man. And she died. That's what I gathered from their relationship. She was a silver age girlfriend through and through, honestly if anyone is overrated it's this young lady. (Thank God for Spider-Gwen and Ultimate Gwen...they have done much to improve her character. Pretty much by running in the opposite direction.).

Third, Mary Jane has helped Peter through heartbreak, death, trauma, and sadness. She's his rock. That's her key role in the franchise. Fourth, He's not like Batman...at all. He's not a dedicated, brooding, loner of the night. He's about responsibility. That's it, that's all you need. Fifth, Mary Jane provided an intimate connection to the people he was trying to save. She gave him stakes in the fight, she helped inspire him to fight harder, and gave him a partner. Sixth, Peter Parker was a character that was always intended to settle down. He wanted to marry Gwen, Felicia, and proposed to MJ two times before she finally agreed. Dude's a romantic.

Finally, you don't have to like Mary Jane, but you are seriously devaluing her position. She really is one of the most iconic love interests in comics for being a great three-dimensional flawed female character. Whom I love, and allowed Spider-man to seem more friendly to me as a female fan. She has a ton of fans still, just because Emma Stone is adorkable (which she is, have you seen her lip sync on Jimmy Fallon. My God, give that woman the world.) doesn't mean Mary Jane (as a fifty year old character) has to be devalued (especially since Gwen and Peter in ASM were essentially MJ and Peter but with more science). She is his definitive love interest. She's his Lois Lane! OH I WENT THERE! BOOYA!

But believe what you will. I will just continue to ship them ferociously.

[boots]

Well I don't see what you are mad about, you got what you wanted. A Peter Parker that is more batman than spiderman, who is lonely, childless, and can never get the girl. You got what you wanted, and I ( and others like me ) lost the hero I used to admire. You won but remember this, marvel turned on us and destroyed our hero when they decided they no longer needed us, someday marvel will do the same to you when they feel they don't need you anymore too. When that happens just remember I told you so.

speaking of ott. the "one day they shall turn on you too, beware the viper that sleeps, the hand that feeds and the sheep that sheeps" speech is up there with the great dramatics on this board.

it's a comic book company. things change. it aint personal. good luck to them.

[Thor8607]

speaking of ott. the "one day they shall turn on you too, beware the viper that sleeps, the hand that feeds and the sheep that sheeps" speech is up there with the great dramatics on this board.

it's a comic book company. things change. it aint personal. good luck to them.

Sort of like the Godfather " it's nothing personal, just business". I get it, but I'm not going to love it..or buy it for that matter.

[boots]

Sort of like the Godfather " it's nothing personal, just business". I get it, but I'm not going to love it..or buy it for that matter.

if brevoort leaves a horses head on your pillow, be sure to let us know.

and it’s fine to not love them or buy their product. it’s fine to criticise them too of course, but to accuse them of owing you anything and playing a victim is stretching credibility. have you ever heard of the term “covert contract”? google it if you have a second.

i read the marriage years as a kid too and somehow i don’t live in fear of them bussing me. marvel owe me nothing except what they believe is their best work.

[dragonmp93]

i heard he attempted to go good?

Really ?, i have no idea.

Should anyone be surprised, the adventures of Peter Parker must be the greatest aspects that Marvel must showcase over everything else. Spider-Man's character is a legacy concept, his actual purpose is to invoke timelessness in his character and actions, he's also a self martyred man with a plucky kid heart making him fundamentally youthful and simplistic. Really, being married is and always shall be too be a bridge for Peter to cross because it means Peter would have to change and most likely stop being Spidey or even a protagonist all together. Unless they want Peter to go the Goku route and have him have epic adventures and fights without seeing his wife and children almost every day, then I don't see how it would work. I'll elaborate on Peter changing more, Peter would have to change his real life ways and his overall tied to the streets and being a underdog concept extremely so, if he kept being Spider-Man because it would be unrealistic to not have Peter balance his family life with wife and child to his heroic life and change his entire concept of being more than he is, meaning it would make Peter generic and badly written. Also it's badly written if he had a married life and still fought in his conventional ways of webslinging, facing the villain and barely winning, getting back home and having to pick up kids from school and IMO it would get boring unless Spider-Man power grinds up from his original abilities and is a meta human top tier like thor or captain marvel but still boring.

And I never saw Peter staying in one default characterization considering his character's build up, he's like Batman, he alternates and changes through various stories and has a infinite scope of stories and situations he can end up in. As long he stays the "Responsible and Self Sacrificing" concept people know and love him for. MJ is so overrated to, what can she do, Aunt May can do, only not pork her. There have been far more pivitol female characters that's helped Peter more than MJ ever has, it's been so long since I can honestly say Gwen is most likely the greatest female supporting character to Peter since May Parker, because she helped make Spider-Man a true deconstruction of always saving the damsel in distress and made Peter as pivitol to superhero clichés more than any Marvel hero or superhero after him. Peter has so much to give, his input value is boundless, he just doesn't belong to the people he loves but the whole marvel u.

Well, Marvel could have break them up by Spidey cheating on with Black Cat, and/or MJ sleeping with Iron Man, or something like MJ getting a job offer overseas and Spidey refusing to leave New York, or something; but NOOOOOO, they had to do a deal with a devil-stand-in for that.

[Thor8607]

if brevoort leaves a horses head on your pillow, be sure to let us know.

and it’s fine to not love them or buy their product. it’s fine to criticise them too of course, but to accuse them of owing you anything and playing a victim is stretching credibility. have you ever heard of the term “covert contract”? google it if you have a second.

i read the marriage years as a kid too and somehow i don’t live in fear of them bussing me. marvel owe me nothing except what they believe is their best work.

Your putting words in my mouth, I never said they "owed" me anything.

[boots]

Your putting words in my mouth, I never said they "owed" me anything.

my words definitely but how would you describe it? you've more or less said they have abandoned you and they turned on you. which implies they are an attacker/abuser and you are the innocent victim/rejected partner. it's you, you , you rather than marvel as a comic publisher just...y'know...behaving like a comic publisher.

all your posts indicate that they should be acting differently according to your tastes and your comfort and your nostalgia. it sure sounds like you think they owe you something. a...courtesy? special story? apology? respect? spider children? i don't know.

[oldschool]

Well I don't see what you are mad about, you got what you wanted. A Peter Parker that is more batman than spiderman, who is lonely, childless, and can never get the girl. You got what you wanted, and I ( and others like me ) lost the hero I used to admire. You won but remember this, marvel turned on us and destroyed our hero when they decided they no longer needed us, someday marvel will do the same to you when they feel they don't need you anymore too. When that happens just remember I told you so.

Thor, again, you seem to be taking this all very personally. We just had this same discussion yesterday; Marvel is not "turning on anyone" nor acting as if "they don't need you anymore". Just think for a second how silly that would be for any company to do! Thor, they are producing what they believe are good comics that will attract an audience; clearly, a lot of people agree as they continue to sell more comics than anyone else. Will some people not dig them? Sure. Happens all the time. I was actually a pretty loyal X-Men fan until the mid-00's when the stories got completely convoluted and there was too much "world ending" drama for me every month (plus evil Cyclops; not my bag). So I dropped the books; haven't bought a comic with an "X" on the cover except for Peter David's "X-Factor" in about 10 years. Did Marvel "turn on me"? Nah. Will I ever buy another X-comic? Possibly.