VS!: The Great "Runaways" or "Young Avengers" Debate!

[CBR News]

Kelly Thompson and Brett White debate the supremacy of two of Marvel's iconic teen teams -- but the ultimate winner is decided by you!


Full article here.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

They made the choice easy when they choose the worst Young Avengers team

[UltimateTy]

They made the choice easy when they choose the worst Young Avengers team

I came here to post this. I really hate that volume.

[gurkle]

Yeah, Heinberg's first Young Avengers series already holds up much better than Gillen & McKelvie's, and its idea - young people trying to figure out where their place is in the history of the Marvel Universe - is much more interesting than the coming-of-age metaphors in G&M. Gillen was trying to do something that was less continuity-heavy and would stand on its own more than Heinberg's, but I don't think he came up with anything as elegant as Heinberg's Marvel history stuff. Instead it was (by Gillen's own admission) very unsubtle and in-your-face.

Also, I know it's already a cliche to complain about "diversity" talk, but this?

KELLY: For sure. Both books are about even when it comes to race, with "Runaways" fully ahead until Prodigy shows up partway through "Young Avengers." However, technically "Young Avengers" ends up on top at the end of the book since Prodigy is solidly with the team and Alex has disappeared.

"Young Avengers" is way ahead on the LGBTQ+ characters. With not only two out gay characters that are actively in a relationship (thus making it something tangible in the story and visible on the page) but at some point it becomes clear that nobody is straight in the book except for Kate Bishop (and even she is "not that straight" according to America).

This is straight up point-tallying, and it has nothing to do with whether the books or the characters are any good or not. A lot of the conversation is like that, and it seems to value representation above all other things. Or at least there's much more discussion of representation, body types, etc. than the quality of the storytelling or art. If Prodigy hadn't been with the team at the end, if that's not the story the author was trying to tell, would the book be worse?

I know these are teen superhero comics and they're as valuable for the messages they send to teens as they are for their inherent quality, but there's got to be a limit. Early '90s X-Men was very important to teens facing prejudice, but it's still not very good. I would like to know more about what makes these comics good, not what makes them socially useful.

[Park Slope Pixie]

Heinberg's YA was what set YA "way ahead on the LGBTQ+ characters", let's assign credit where it belongs.

[Personamanx]

Gotta say that "Runaways" was my book of choice for quite a while back Jr/High School. The first volume doesn't really hold up that well, it doesn't really hit it's stride until the Second volume starts. And that is largely to do with Adrian Alphona's art continually improving over the course of his run. His first issues were straight up ugly sometimes but by the final few issues of volume one they were great and he only improved over the course of the second volume.

Gillen's Young Avengers wasn't for me. Great characters, great art but after Seven issues I just wasn't digging the story they were telling. The first volume was a pretty different animal but I still wasn't feeling it most of the time. I suppose the difference is that I read the first volume starting in the middle, and I stopped reading the second volume in the middle of it.

The poll results so far are very close as one would expect.

[NexusTenebrare]

Yeah, a rather stupid comparison given that Gillen only build on Heinberg's (far superior) work.

And saying stuff like the YA cast could be on Teen Wolf is rather laughable when the same largely holds true for the Runaways.
And which characters resonate with you is purely subjective. None of these rebelious characters like the Runaways or America Chavez are even remotely relatable to me personally. I found the original YA cast far more recognisable.

[Teek]

I came here to post this. I really hate that volume.

I came here to post this. I really hate that volume.

Ditto. After shamelessly abusing the Young Avengers with years of neglect, that sequel series was the final nail in the coffin.

Marvel really wasted their potential.




Edit: I dig Miss America though. Shame she couldn't have been included in the team under better circumstances.

[4sake Baned]

I came here to post this. I really hate that volume.

Same here.....

[legion_quest]

Completely disagree with all you moaners.

Gillen's version was fun, hip and kept the focus on Wiccan, while continuing the story of Loki from JiM.

Heinberg's was good too, but I never connected with Patriot or Stature, so them being gone made the second volume a heck of a lot better for me.

As for Runaways, that was a good series that lost it's way as it went on to other writers and volumes as well. The whole mess with Xavin, the overplayed teen drama card that no one ever got called on and I re-read recently and now that I'm not that target age, it hurt to read how dumb those characters acted all the time.

It's pretty cool to see the poll so close though, really shows that these teams really do split a fandom!

[gurkle]

Gillen's version was fun, hip and kept the focus on Wiccan, while continuing the story of Loki from JiM.

That was actually one problem I had with it. The biggest weakness of Children's Crusade was that it was almost entirely a Wiccan story and all the other Young Avengers were sidelined. (This wouldn't have been as big a problem if Marvel had let Heinberg do it as a six-issue Young Avengers story, as he originally pitched. But with all the Avengers and X-Men and X-Factor in it, the other Young Avengers never had a chance.) So Gillen decides that the next series must focus mostly on the character who's already been over-exposed in the last series.

Billy's a good character and all, but he's not that good.

[Personamanx]

As for Runaways, that was a good series that lost it's way as it went on to other writers and volumes as well. The whole mess with Xavin, the overplayed teen drama card that no one ever got called on and I re-read recently and now that I'm not that target age, it hurt to read how dumb those characters acted all the time.

Yeah, Runaways definitely doesn't hold up as well as I wish it did. Alphona's art in late Volume 1 and the entirety of Volume 2 is still fantastic but BKV's writing left much to be desired. The book does have a special place in my heart like I imagine many people do with the favourite comics of their early teens but without the nostalgia at it's best the writing was only serviceable. I wasn't wasn't too hard on the post BKV teams (Except for Kathryn at the time) but in hindsight the writing was pretty even, just not in a good way.

[Iron Fist]

I really liked Gillen's Young Avengers, I haven't had a chance to read the older stuff yet.

But I have read Runaways and I'm rather underwhelmed with it. The characters in it don't really learn or come across as anything but dumb kids following plot points.

Young Avengers actually shows them to be resourceful young adults.

[Park Slope Pixie]

I can't stand that song "Be My Baby", so YA was instantly tainted for me.

[RobertoDaCosta]

Same here.....

THIS.
I loved the original volume of Young Avengers, but i feel Gillen's volume was "style>substance" as the first issue was called, and it didn't have a lot of substance indeed.
I guess it also has to do with the fact that I have fond memories of Runaways, but feel like Young Avengers have lost its edge, so I lost interest and right now I would be more interested in reading another Runaways rather than YA.