VS!: The Great "Runaways" or "Young Avengers" Debate!

[Kusanagi]

Original Runaways vs. Original Young Avengers is really really tough for me, I absolutely loved both runs. I'd give a very slight nod to Runaways just because I love the initial premise so much.

[Hurricane D]

Patriot would have made an awesome Cap. He's a heck of a lot more qualified for Avengers membership than the ANAD teens, that's for sure.

Kamala? Yes. Miles Morales? No

[Kieran_Frost]

Gillen kept saying, in response to fan demands, that he couldn't use Patriot because someone else at Marvel had plans for him. Whoever it was that had dibs on the character, the project obviously didn't happen.

Or the writer changed their mind. Same thing happened with Zemo back when Diggle was on Thunderbolts (which is why I still assume Ghost was meant to be Zemo); we were told someone had dibs so he wouldn't be appearing in Captain America, but nothing came of it. I assume (since Diggle jumped ship) it was in Thunderbolts, and that story never happened.

Yes. Yes I was very much.

YEY!

Of course Frost hates Patriot, Patriot didnt worship Saint Wiccan and think he was always right.

Firstly, I don't hate Patriot. I just don't care for him; but he's better than Cassie. Secondly, Eli and Billy were friends. It was Billy who found Eli using drugs and wanted to help him. I always got a friendship between those two (where as I felt Billy and Cassie had little friendship; which is why his hiatus after she died seemed a little silly). None of the characters (save Hulkling) "worship St. Wiccan" (LOL); but Eli and Kate were certainly very good friend with him.

As for Wiccan in general, first I think he got way too much focus. Second, I think he was far too whining and it was given far too much deference. Honestly after the original cast, he easily had the nicest backstory and yet whined and complained more then anyone else. Two loving adoptive Parents tragic. Hulking had his adopted mom killed and spent less time whining. Kate had a dead mom and attempted sexual assault or rape in her backstory. Eli has a grandfather who is the victim of government experiments. Cassie dead mother.

In which series, because before CC he hadn't had an arc about him; nor any of the minis about him. By CC he was due a story; and he got one (YEY!!!). As for Gillen's run, anyone who read it knows he was the protagonist, but not the star. He's not in 1/4 of the actual comic, and barely in 1/3. Loki is the star, Wiccan's merely the catalyst. Even his and Teddy's relationship (which is key to the series) is told through Teddy's eyes, Teddy's point of view, not Billy's. Teddy get the solo issue talking about it, the break-up happens from Teddy's point of view, we don't know Billy's; what their relationship means in the first issue was told through Teddy's outburst.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Where is the scene where whatever version of Captain America goes and rips him a new anus for being a quitter.

Or the scene where Captain America is sympathetic and says "I understand your position, growing up is difficult and some space can be good."

[Fokken]

None of the characters (save Hulkling) "worship St. Wiccan" (LOL)

.

Sigh.




Past tense, mind you, but still.

[gurkle]

I never liked the idea that clichés become less clichéd if the writer admits they're clichéd. But to be fair, that's a Marvel tradition (if Spider-Man can make fun of the corny plot twists in his own book, why can't Kid Loki?).

[AJpyro]

Runaways for me. It was the book that got me into Marvel and I felt for the charas.

YA I got into the Gillen run but the last volume has been out of my reach but as much as I liked Gillen's writing, I felt Runaways got to me better.

[Saffron]

In which series, because before CC he hadn't had an arc about him; nor any of the minis about him. By CC he was due a story; and he got one (YEY!!!). As for Gillen's run, anyone who read it knows he was the protagonist, but not the star. He's not in 1/4 of the actual comic, and barely in 1/3. Loki is the star, Wiccan's merely the catalyst. Even his and Teddy's relationship (which is key to the series) is told through Teddy's eyes, Teddy's point of view, not Billy's. Teddy get the solo issue talking about it, the break-up happens from Teddy's point of view, we don't know Billy's; what their relationship means in the first issue was told through Teddy's outburst.

Skimming through the original series again, I noticed Billy got the least focus (along with Tommy), and his secret-Mum backstory was only ever briefly touched upon . He wasn't whiny, either -- he was actually one of the more upbeat characters in the series. Cassie and Eli, on the hand, were given the most attention, and they were close to tears, if not crying lakes, every second panel.

Even in Children's Crusade, Billy wasn't all that whiny. He might have been a bit oversensitive at times, but it wasn't without reason. He was worried about the potential destructiveness his powers, everyone was acting like he did already something wrong, and, to top it off, Wolverine was itching to snikt him. Hell, that last part justifies all the bellyachin' one can muster.

I think Gillen portrayed him as rather whiny, though, and that was probably the intentional, but as you say, Kieran, he was definitely not the star. Gillen used him to develop other characters, but he had no character development of his own.

[Wellman]

I fell deep into love with Miss America Chavez back after her debut in the underrated mini series, Vengeance. Where she honestly should have been the main character instead whatever the name was of that guy with the tattoos with Captain America shirt, who if he wasn't a part of a exposition conversation he was doing something 90s kewl at another character's expense. But despite that douche hogging all the spotlight, Miss America Chavez and her question able dress won me over with her jerk like tendencies and by being a flying badass that reminded me of Wonder Woman. Gillen's interpretation just confirmed it, added more to her back story and made her more cosplay eligible which is always cool in my book.


All that being said, I still prefer the Runaways, mainly because even just based off just the first run alone, it felt more like a ensemble which I prefer for my team books, while Young Avengers, great characters aside leaned extremely heavily into being the Loki and Billy show with the occasional guest spots and cameos.


I hope after Secret Wars, both franchises get another chance to shine, as they have some extremely great characters attached to them that aren't getting nearly the love they should.

[Sutekh]

Molly Hayes and America Chavez totally need to team up and stomp some bad guys.

And Gertrude Yonkers needs to come back, calling herself Arsenic. From another universe. Where only she survived, after betraying the rest of the team to the Gibborim, and is now an adult time traveler with some high tech equipped dinosaur/human hybrid mercenaries and internal chemosynth organ that allows her to generate various toxins and deliver them by touch. Cause if there's one thing the Runaways could use, it's a cool recurring villain...

(YA already have built in villains, with Iron Lad/Kang and 'Wiccan-screws-up-a-spell' as their go-to antagonists...)

[Kieran_Frost]

Skimming through the original series again, I noticed Billy got the least focus (along with Tommy), and his secret-Mum backstory was only ever briefly touched upon . He wasn't whiny, either -- he was actually one of the more upbeat characters in the series. Cassie and Eli, on the hand, were given the most attention, and they were close to tears, if not crying lakes, every second panel.

Even in Children's Crusade, Billy wasn't all that whiny. He might have been a bit oversensitive at times, but it wasn't without reason. He was worried about the potential destructiveness his powers, everyone was acting like he did already something wrong, and, to top it off, Wolverine was itching to snikt him. Hell, that last part justifies all the bellyachin' one can muster.

I think Gillen portrayed him as rather whiny, though, and that was probably the intentional, but as you say, Kieran, he was definitely not the star. Gillen used him to develop other characters, but he had no character development of his own.

Glad to know it's not just me.

[malreyn]

i'll add to the many people saying that I dont understand why the original Runaways was compared to a much later Young Avengers nd not to the original Young Avengers. Both because... that would make more sense... for so many reasons... and because the original was better, anyway.

[theilikepie]

Runaways, its more relatable and it had an original plot