So where is the line between cultural diffusion and cultural appropriation?

[Ed Cunard]

Being entertained by minorities and believing in racist ideas/ideals are not mutually exclusive. A bunch of people liked Jackie Robinson for instance. Didn't change how America was at the time.

Of the fact that a recent national publication described Iggy Azalea, a mediocre white rapper, as being "the queen of hip hop."

[Double 0]

Of the fact that a recent national publication described Iggy Azalea, a mediocre white rapper, as being "the queen of hip hop."

Oh god, I didn't want to be reminded of that...

[End of Time]

Of the fact that a recent national publication described Iggy Azalea, a mediocre white rapper, as being "the queen of hip hop."

Since when is commercial hype any sort of social indicator?

[Double 0]

Since when is commercial hype any sort of social indicator?

Since when has it not?

[End of Time]

Since when has it not?

Since people know that hype is meaningless when it gets pushed out by the bucketload in order to inflate sales and generate buzz... so, you know... since forever.

Cyclops #1 was absolute gold, and would continue to be just that in #2, the most anticipated story of the year. The most talked-about series since Grant Morrison's New X-men gave us clever and intricate stories and characters. It was a critical darling, scoring high notes with the majority of readers and reviewers, it established its all new creative team as revolutionary storytellers... of course it hadn't even shipped yet and nobody had read any of it.

[Ed Cunard]

Since when is commercial hype any sort of social indicator?

I'm pretty sure an article in Forbes* doesn't qualify as "commercial hype" as much as it demonstrates how a white, pretty(ish) face makes something like hip hop palatable to white hegemony, rather than distasteful or somehow "less than."




*link to a discussion on the article, not the article itself.

[Michael P]

I'm pretty sure an article in Forbes* doesn't qualify as "commercial hype" as much as it demonstrates how a white, pretty(ish) face makes something like hip hop palatable to white hegemony, rather than distasteful or somehow "less than."

I'm just astonished that anyone out there isn't aware of the "put a white face on black music to make it palatable, collect moneys" strategy. All the way back to jazz and big bands, this has been SOP.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Eminem more or less admitted that if he was black he wouldn't have sold no where near the amount he has. And the white entertainment indutry has been trying to create a white rap super star for years. What's really sad though is black rappers ripping off white hipster culture to stay relevant. It's as if hip hop woke up and said what can we do to get white media to pay attention to us again. Ironically a huge wave of hipster white rappers show up and they ended up with the attention. Swag and hipster rap was hip hops way of trying to stay relevant, cause you know the grass is always greener on the other side. But if rappers play that game the awards will just go to iggy and Macklemore instead. It's a losing battle...

[Mikekerr3]

Since when? It didn't just magically disappear; the stealing is still happening. Domestically, and especially internationally.

Stealing? Who loses anything? Culture is not property it is in the public commons so it can't be stolen. You can't steal what nobody owns and is in unlimited supply.

Civilization is basically everyone taking what works best for them and going with it. We are writing to each other in a, by your Standards. a stolen alphabet, in a language "stolen' from dozens of cultures some of which don't even exist now.

[Mikekerr3]

In terms of gender in the states yes, you can change it and in other parts of the world people get stoned for that sort of thing. Its not the simple thing you're making it out to be. And its a helluva jump to think someone could do that with race especially in the states. Until a law comes out saying people can change their race from black to white and vice versa you're talking science fiction, it'd probably make a good movie though.

To the hypothetical, no a white person wouldn't be able to check Asian in the race box on a college application or job application, just because they were born in Japan. I mean I guess they could but it wouldn't be true. Nationality? Yes. Race? No I don't think so. And no again it wouldn't make them more Japanese than Japanese people born in the U.S. But that's another obsession with cultural appropriators, the need to be " more Native American than the Native Americans" and etc.etc.

I think races is what you are born with , only folks like my Sons get to chose which bloick to check.

It would take a really dumb, ans Self-destructive, college student to mark Asian instead of White at any college that it mattered at since he wold be screwing himself over severely.

[thespianphryne]

Given how women have been oppressed and dominated over men in various ways, historically and in contemporary times, isn't something like drag queen performances by cis men an act of appropriation? Womanhood as a costume you can put on and take off when convenient

Actually that's exactly why it's not quite cultural appropriation. Because "womanhood" in this context is a performance. Most gender behaviour is a performance. And that anything that highlights that is A-OK in my book.

Also, this is exactly why the Caucasian individual raised in Japan by Japanese parents does not have access to the same social benefits as other people of Asian origin in the US. If you argue that he should be given benefits in Japan because of some sort of multi-generational social inequity because of his race. That's a whole other thing. But in the US, looking like a white dude is hardly a net disadvantage.

[thespianphryne]

Given how women have been oppressed and dominated over men in various ways, historically and in contemporary times, isn't something like drag queen performances by cis men an act of appropriation? Womanhood as a costume you can put on and take off when convenient

Also, I do have to wonder how bad this sort of appropriation is when it puts you in an even worse social place than the thing being appropriated.

[CliffHanger2]

I think races is what you are born with , only folks like my Sons get to chose which bloick to check.

It would take a really dumb, ans Self-destructive, college student to mark Asian instead of White at any college that it mattered at since he wold be screwing himself over severely.

Yeah that too.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think races is what you are born with , only folks like my Sons get to chose which bloick to check.

It would take a really dumb, ans Self-destructive, college student to mark Asian instead of White at any college that it mattered at since he wold be screwing himself over severely.

Really want to avoid belaboring the issue, but race is not a fixed thing. It's largely subjective. There was actually a court case where an Indian American man made a claim to Caucasian identity(because Caucasian in it's original meaning includes people of Indian descent).

[Tracer Bullet]

Actually that's exactly why it's not quite cultural appropriation. Because "womanhood" in this context is a performance. Most gender behaviour is a performance. And that anything that highlights that is A-OK in my book.

An interesting point, but a lot of cultural traditions involve performance as well, so are they all equally okay?
Consider belly dancing for instance:
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/why_...belly_dancers/

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/i_st...belly_dancers/

Also, I do have to wonder how bad this sort of appropriation is when it puts you in an even worse social place than the thing being appropriated.

Well I think most drag performers are LGBTQ anyway so it isn't necessarily stepping down into worse social position, more like stepping sideways. And it is celebrated within that community so there's a disconnect when comparing things macrocosmically and microcosmically.