So where is the line between cultural diffusion and cultural appropriation?

[Radioactive Zombie]

The whole thing is about manners more than anything. "Lines" are vague and often waver from person to person. Real life doesn't have concrete "lines" where you say yes or no on such things. Usually it becomes problematic when it's obvious to just about everyone (for example, white people putting on a Sioux headdress).

Yeah, this. I'm Filipino and I'm fine with things like putting on cultural outfits - as long as they clearly pay respect to the culture it's from, and not for drunken frat parties.

Myself, I'm really wary of people telling me things are cultural appropriation - I've been told I must be a white boy for saying Godzilla's remake isn't cultural violence. Enforcing cultural barriers is, in my opinion, really adversarial to making social progress and enforces a us vs. them attitude that only gets more racism hurled about. (I've seen angry LGTBQ Americans/Canadians write off all of Japan as one big homophobic country because of a joke in Persona 4 where the protagonist was behaving like a homophobic idiot and asking stupid questions that annoyed the resident "gay" guy, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.) We don't live in a vacuum - cultures shift and change.

[Double 0]

Can you provide a positive example of what you're saying?

Teena Marie's whole career?

[CenturianSpy]

So where is the line between cultural diffusion and cultural appropriation?

I refuse to acknowledge cultural appropriation as a real issue. Seems like a $40K/yr university's phrase for the high school girl phrase "she stole my look". Funny how that situation also has the winner determined by a like-minded clique.

[Tracer Bullet]

Teena Marie's whole career?

Honestly, she wasn't on my radar until she died, but I did see how Black people reacted to her career. Not aware of any of her research or communion with the community that influenced her.

I refuse to acknowledge cultural appropriation as a real issue. Seems like a $40K/yr university's phrase for the high school girl phrase "she stole my look". Funny how that situation also has the winner determined by a like-minded clique.

Given some of the examples where it's been called out, what makes you feel that it isn't a real issue?

[Double 0]

Honestly, she wasn't on my radar until she died, but I did see how Black people reacted to her career. Not aware of any of her research or communion with the community that influenced her.

She lived within a black community in her adolescent days, was mentored by Rick James, Berry Gordy Jr., Hal Davis and others, started her career at Motown, and continued to work with and care for African American artists and celebrities till the end of her life (Lenny Kravitz, Nona Gaye, Maya Rudolph, etc.)

So on a scale of cultural diffusion and appropriation, she'd be the opposite of Iggy Azalea and Kreayshawn.

[Paradox]

CenturianSpy thinks its a fashion issue:

I refuse to acknowledge cultural appropriation as a real issue. Seems like a $40K/yr university's phrase for the high school girl phrase "she stole my look". Funny how that situation also has the winner determined by a like-minded clique.

It's not "you stole my look", it's "you're disrespecting my culture by reducing it to something you're playing 'dress up' with."

[7thangel]

urban outfitters presents...

Navajo Print Fabric Wrapped Flask



and

Navajo Hipster Panty

[End of Time]

Cultural appropriation:

Race X can't do thing Y, because it belongs to Race Z.

In my part of the world, that's called racism.

[Paradox]

Not "can't...". "It would be rude and insensitive to..."

[End of Time]

Not "can't...". "It would be rude and insensitive to..."

That's an ultimately futile distinction to make because it is subjective in 99% of the cases... and while it may look good on paper beforehand, in reality it boils down to "you can't do this because you are ..."

[Radioactive Zombie]

urban outfitters presents...

Navajo Print Fabric Wrapped Flask



and

Navajo Hipster Panty

Didn't these guys do a Ching-Chong Hat, or was that Abercrombie and Fitch?

[Paradox]

End of Time doesn't see the difference:

That's an ultimately futile distinction to make because it is subjective in 99% of the cases... and while it may look good on paper beforehand, in reality it boils down to "you can't do this because you are ..."

My point is there's nothing prohibiting you from doing it, aside from some people thinking you're an *******. Lots of people simply don't give a rat's what someone thinks of them. As I keep mentioning, it's a matter of societal politeness. That's one of the reasons that there's no "line".

And I keep getting a little irritated with people treating "subjective" as if it meant "completely without guideline" instead of "slightly different to varying people". Most of the egregious examples are OBVIOUS. Don't do blackface. Don't wear an Native American headdress. Don't wear a "Coolie Hat". Basically don't treat other peoples' cultures, particularly those you've either enslaved or massacred nearly out of existence, like they're a Halloween costume.

[End of Time]

My point is there's nothing prohibiting you from doing it, aside from some people thinking you're an *******. Lots of people simply don't give a rat's what someone thinks of them. As I keep mentioning, it's a matter of societal politeness. That's one of the reasons that there's no "line".

And I keep getting a little irritated with people treating "subjective" as if it meant "completely without guideline" instead of "slightly different to varying people". Most of the egregious examples are OBVIOUS. Don't do blackface. Don't wear an Native American headdress. Don't wear a "Coolie Hat". Basically don't treat other peoples' cultures, particularly those you've either enslaved or massacred nearly out of existence, like they're a Halloween costume.

Which is something a whole lot of people aren't allowed to celebrate... since you know... Europe, Pre-Christianity and all that jazz, it is actually a pretty important holiday... which you just trivialized and stereotyped. I'm not saying anything out loud, not passing any sort of moral judgment here... all I'm saying is that you just marginalized a cultural and religious celebration of a group of people.

Let's be honest here... I don't think you're going to tell a random black person or an asian person that they are "problematic" for participating in Halloween festivities, because Halloween doesn't "belong to them" and when they play dress up as a vampire you're not going to accuse them of appropiating someone else's culture, after all, they're treating Halloween, and Vlad Tepes, like it is some sort of dress-up party. Same goes for St. Patrick's Day. It's completely one-sided, even when people claim that it isn't.

Cultural appropiation is too dumb to take seriously, because the whole concept is so rickety and flawed that you can run circles around it.

Who gets to be the arbiter on what is and what isn't cultural appropiation? You? Me? The person who gets offended the first? Was there a vote? Should we let Tumblr decide?

[Mormel]

Did anyone catch the controversy surrounding Pharrell appearing in Native American headdress for a photoshoot in Elle magazine? There was quite a negative reaction, and Pharrell ended up issuing an apology, saying that it had not been his intention to offend anyone or to reduce a cultural symbol to a fashion accessory. I thought that was pretty classy on Pharrell's part.

[CliffHanger2]

Did anyone catch the controversy surrounding Pharrell appearing in Native American headdress for a photoshoot in Elle magazine? There was quite a negative reaction, and Pharrell ended up issuing an apology, saying that it had not been his intention to offend anyone or to reduce a cultural symbol to a fashion accessory. I thought that was pretty classy on Pharrell's part.

I heard about that and I think Pharell did the right thing. He would have sounded like an idiot saying" What's the big deal? Native Americans shouldn't be offended they don't own this look." I guess the difference is the appropriators can't see someone else's culture as anything more than just something for them to take and present as they see fit. With no regard for the people that created it, it's not just rude but a display of power over that original group.